Author Topic: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use  (Read 303 times)

Offline Bancopuma

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« on: May 21, 2017, 01:06:17 PM »
Hey peeps, some advice here I've compiled for anyone wanting to work with 5-MeO safely, with the intention of getting the most out of it. I'm certainly not advocating this approach as the only way, this is a personal path, and different strokes for different folks! I just figured some guidelines could minimise potential risks and be of value to 5-MeOnauts, particularly people who are new to the compound. These guidelines came about through exchanges with a number of seasoned explorers of 5-MeO space including James Oroc and Martin Ball, and the guidelines have been vetted and approved by admins of the 5-Hive forum, who really know their 5-MeO. I hope they prove helpful.

- Consume the 5-MeO in a safe and secure setting in quiet and comfortable surroundings, lying or comfortably reclining on a bed, mat or recliner chair, with all breakable or potentially dangerous objects removed from the vicinity. Make sure all potential sources of distraction or intrusion such as phones, animals or people coming in have been dealt with. The presence of a sober sitter would definitely be highly recommended if you are new to the compound.

- Be sober and free of intoxicants or medications. Cannabis is not contraindicated with 5-MeO, and may allow one to stay in the space for longer, but it certainly isn't necessary. One should not be on MAOI's, RIMA's or SSRI's at the time. Avoid alcohol. It is good to be well rested, well-nourished and well hydrated prior to a session, but to have an empty stomach. It is good to consume a light healthy meal 3-4 hours prior to the experience, but then refrain from eating. Drinking a good amount of water in the day prior is also recommended, but one can refrain from imbibing liquids 2 hours prior to ingesting the 5-MeO. One should be calm and centered with a mind as clear and uncluttered as possible going into the experience.

- Some people may find a preparatory session of yogic asanas and deep breathing in the form of yogic pranayama exercises may be advantageous in providing a state of calm relaxation going into the experience. This is well worth experimenting with, and may synergise positively with the experience and aid in both witnessing and integration of the experience. A session of yogic box breathing (breathe in for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds - breathe out for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds...and repeat) prior to one's experience may prove beneficial, and it may be used as a navigational aid later on in the experience. Alternate nostril breathing, known as Nadi shodhana pranayama, would be another great alternative or supplementary breathwork practice.

- If vaporising, a torch lighter and glass lollipop pipe make for a highly effective means of launching. One should apply the lighter to the bowl of the pipe containing the measured dosage and heat for 10 seconds or so, while observing the 5-MeO melting and turning to vapour. Prior to smoking, take a few deep breaths, and prior to taking the pipe, breathe out completely. Then with the pipe, take a long, slow, deep breath. Hold one's breathe as long as they can comfortably, set the pipe aside, and then lie down. One can count to 10 after lying down with their breathe held if they wish. If using the pipe repeatedly in a ceremonial context, it is important to be aware of potential 5-MeO residues in the pipe which may affect subsequent dosages.

- Stagger up one’s dosage at 1/2mg at a time, to find one’s individual release/OBE dose (this will vary widely, and this is definitely not a "one size fits all" vibe when it comes to dosage). Alternatively, start off with low sub-breakthrough doses and build up from there as one desires to gain a feel for 5-MeO and to allow for idiosyncratic variations in response to the substance, and being familiar with the substance at low doses should be of benefit when dosing higher and venturing into deeper experiential waters. More is not better here, and the minimal dose required for release will reduce white-outs and amnesia and allow for more recall of the experience, while minimising risks...worth remembering that 5-MeO is a far more potent drug than N,N-DMT and more care is required when dosing. One can either use a highly sensitive scale (which can be expensive), or acquire some milligram measuring scoops (much cheaper, just not as precise) for this purpose.

Advice on accurate dosing using milligram measuring scoops is provided here:

https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php?topic=50423.0

- Don’t think, just be, just breathe. Don't try and analyse or understand the experience as it is occurring, just allow the experience to unfold and you can contemplate it later.

- Let yourself go, dissolve, surrender.

- Stay in the light as long as possible. Remain relaxed, focussed and symmetrical in the body.

- On returning to the body following the experience, avoid talking and remain still and silent, either lying down or in meditative posture. This will better allow one to integrate the experience.

- Some soft instrumental music may be advantageous for people coming back from a 5-MeO journey. It may also act to mask other sounds if partaking in an urban environment.

- If partaking in a ceremonial context with others and someone seems to be tensing up and having a hard time, some gentle soothing words of reassurance to relax and let go, or brief physical contact may prove helpful, along with some soothing music. If partaking in a ceremonial context with others, it would be recommended to keep such groups small, and only one person at a time should partake of the 5-MeO. If anyone appears to be having trouble breathing and looks like they may vomit, move the person onto their side in the recovery position, and vomiting will happen if it needs to. Generally if vomiting does occur, the experience will relax into the experience.

- Post experience, one may experience reactivations. These well reduce in frequency over time, and tend to occur during sleep or at times of deep relaxation. People may also experience reactivations during meditation or breathwork practice and when using psychedelics or cannabis. It is best to experience these reactivations with acceptance and a positive mindset. They will level off over time. Activities such as physical exercise, yoga, meditation, Tai chi, Qigong, dance, breathwork, floatation, shamanic drumming, time in nature and other forms of exertion and relaxation may help to ground this energy, while also keeping the flame of your experiential insights burning bright and aide with integration of the experience. Some people may find it valuable to connect with others who have been through the experience. There are a number of online communities and groups where such connection is possible, but the 5-Hive forum would come particularly recommended.


...do others here have any other advice or suggestions they would consider important to add here? Suggestions welcomed! :)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 05:34:54 AM by Bancopuma »

Offline Flux

  • Global Moderator
  • Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 224
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2017, 10:04:39 PM »
Thanks Bancopuma,

Some great observations here. I particularly feel the slowly measured approach is really valuable as the idiosyncratic reactions are important to consider.
There is a prevailing discourse around 5-MeO that anything short of 'full dissolution' is not the full experience, which disregards the many incredible insights and healing that this medicine offers. This gradual, incremental approach seems to be manifesting as a theme in my life at the moment and it is an interesting lesson. Much like working with Changa (for which I prefer a strong blend of n-n-dmt to Caapi vine), I have noticed that easing people into it gently helps greatly in adjusting to the often abrupt transition between worlds. I have been observing a close friend begin to take smaller doses of 5-MeO, such as 7mg scoop to begin with, rather than the usual jumping straight in to 15 or 20mg and this has been yielding very rewarding experiences as the deeper journeys were proving to be quite challenging for him.

Focusing on the breath - allowing the cognisant mind to depart and dissolve - surrendering - and bearing witness to the unfolding are about the best, or about the only real advice, one can offer :)

In regards to 'staying in the light as long a possible', I have found that after one returns from the Sahmadi state- that avoiding talking for as long as possible is a good practice. While for many, especially for the first few times, the desire to exclaim 'WOW', 'Oh My God' or 'What the Actual F**K' is often irresistible, with practice this 'not giving way to astonishment' as McKenna put it, has great merit. Staying in the experience by silently lying still or silently sitting in a meditative position significantly increase ones ability to integrate the experience, as the aspects of 'the self' return, the energetic body re-aligns with the ego and spirit becomes again held within physicality- this is where we begin to process, reflect and integrate divine consciousness with the everyday and bring the sacred into the profane.

Offline Bancopuma

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 04:21:59 AM »
Hey Flux,

Thanks for your input here, you make some great points. And yes I think the individualised, slowly measured cautious approach is the name of the game here. You make a very good point about sub-breakthrough doses...I know of another member of the 5-Hive team who thinks this is highly valid territory worthy of exploration...and the gradual, incremental approach sounds like an excellent way to proceed with working with 5-MeO. I recall some research on psilocybin conducted at Johns Hopkins, the research team there led by Prof. Roland Griffiths noted that study participants who had experienced a small dose of psilocybin prior to the high dose were prone to noticeable less anxiety states during the high dose experiences in comparison to participants that did not receive this smaller dose prior. But yes, given the wide variation in idiosyncratic reactions and the great potency and power of this substance, this seems like a sound approach to take.

Great advice too regarding avoiding talking and remaining still after the experience to aid with integration, I have a feeling this is some really sound advice, and I will be sure to keep this in mind for my next experience.

Thanks for chiming in here, I will amend these guidelines accordingly. :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:31:57 AM by Bancopuma »

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Cosmic Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 02:10:21 PM »
Great guidelines here!

Offline Truth

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 11:38:50 PM »
Gooday fine people,
Ive found sub-threshold doses, particularly, when done in succession ie: directly, one after the other, can bring about some profound cathartic releases.
It takes some getting used to, and can take some courage and determination particularly if its done alone. Perhaps because of working alone, the releases , Ive found personally can be very deep.
I don't know that I could have as easily let go in front of other people though.........especially during two sessions in particular. Both occasions were pretty messy in various ways and the fact that no one else was there to hear me wail and cry or to see me on my hands and knees purging was releaving, I didn't have to be on guard presenting an image. it was just one thing that didn't have to be worried about so I was able to go deeper and let go of more.
So I think that sub-threshold doses are great for doing release work and are a very valid and helpful way to use the medicine

« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 11:42:19 PM by Truth »

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Cosmic Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 09:20:32 PM »
Gooday fine people,
Ive found sub-threshold doses, particularly, when done in succession ie: directly, one after the other, can bring about some profound cathartic releases.
It takes some getting used to, and can take some courage and determination particularly if its done alone. Perhaps because of working alone, the releases , Ive found personally can be very deep.
I don't know that I could have as easily let go in front of other people though.........especially during two sessions in particular. Both occasions were pretty messy in various ways and the fact that no one else was there to hear me wail and cry or to see me on my hands and knees purging was releaving, I didn't have to be on guard presenting an image. it was just one thing that didn't have to be worried about so I was able to go deeper and let go of more.
So I think that sub-threshold doses are great for doing release work and are a very valid and helpful way to use the medicine

This is great and validating to hear, Truth. This is a way of working with the medicine that I have been suggesting for a little while and have actually had great success with. I have been developing a detailed way to work with the medicine in this way and hope to release that information once it has been polished and reviewed by peers.

Offline 5driedgrams

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 07:11:30 AM »
Gooday fine people,
Ive found sub-threshold doses, particularly, when done in succession ie: directly, one after the other, can bring about some profound cathartic releases.
It takes some getting used to, and can take some courage and determination particularly if its done alone. Perhaps because of working alone, the releases , Ive found personally can be very deep.
I don't know that I could have as easily let go in front of other people though.........especially during two sessions in particular. Both occasions were pretty messy in various ways and the fact that no one else was there to hear me wail and cry or to see me on my hands and knees purging was releaving, I didn't have to be on guard presenting an image. it was just one thing that didn't have to be worried about so I was able to go deeper and let go of more.
So I think that sub-threshold doses are great for doing release work and are a very valid and helpful way to use the medicine

I couldn't relate more to the feeling of not being able to have such a cathartic experience in front of someone/anyone. I've never experienced 5 meo... but I really do not like the idea of being around people while I'm having nn dmt experiences. I also will take 5-7g of mushrooms two or three times a year to release anything that needs to be. I don't like my roommates being home while I do this, because the weeping/sobbing/ chanting can get loud and it makes me uncomfortable unfortunately to risk my roommates hearing my insanity lol. I do like to have someone nearby just in case I need their support. Even a seasoned vet can be reminded that they are no match and must bow humbly to the essence of the mushroom (or whichever substance you are working with).

     I'm happy I'm here. This is my first post other than my intro. Have a great day everyone

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Cosmic Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 05:17:15 PM »
Gooday fine people,
Ive found sub-threshold doses, particularly, when done in succession ie: directly, one after the other, can bring about some profound cathartic releases.
It takes some getting used to, and can take some courage and determination particularly if its done alone. Perhaps because of working alone, the releases , Ive found personally can be very deep.
I don't know that I could have as easily let go in front of other people though.........especially during two sessions in particular. Both occasions were pretty messy in various ways and the fact that no one else was there to hear me wail and cry or to see me on my hands and knees purging was releaving, I didn't have to be on guard presenting an image. it was just one thing that didn't have to be worried about so I was able to go deeper and let go of more.
So I think that sub-threshold doses are great for doing release work and are a very valid and helpful way to use the medicine

I couldn't relate more to the feeling of not being able to have such a cathartic experience in front of someone/anyone. I've never experienced 5 meo... but I really do not like the idea of being around people while I'm having nn dmt experiences. I also will take 5-7g of mushrooms two or three times a year to release anything that needs to be. I don't like my roommates being home while I do this, because the weeping/sobbing/ chanting can get loud and it makes me uncomfortable unfortunately to risk my roommates hearing my insanity lol. I do like to have someone nearby just in case I need their support. Even a seasoned vet can be reminded that they are no match and must bow humbly to the essence of the mushroom (or whichever substance you are working with).

     I'm happy I'm here. This is my first post other than my intro. Have a great day everyone

Welcome and thanks for being here with us!

Offline gurudedicationananda

  • Pollywog
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 06:38:56 AM »
Hi Bancopuma, how have you been?
Thanks for this great write-up.
You said that a "lollipop pipe" and a torch lighter work great; by lollipop pipe do you mean a meth pipe / oil burner pipe / pizzo?
And my other question was, do you actually let the flame from the torch lighter come in contact with the bottom of the glass, or do you keep the flame like one inch below the bulb?
Someone here told me that most of the members here use ordinary bic lighters which come in direct contact with the bottom of the glass bulb, but as someone mentioned to me, since I will be using the HCL salt which vaporizes at a higher temperature, I should be definitely using a torch lighter.
The only thing I need to know is if the flame from the torch should come in direct contact with the glass when heated from below, or should the flame be kept an inch or so beneath the glass?
I just want to do this correctly my first time, and every subsequent time of course.
Thanks again for this great information.

Offline Bancopuma

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Guidelines for 5-MeO-DMT use
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 02:11:46 PM »
Hey dude,

I'm good thank you. And yes I do mean a glass oil/meth type pipe (see attached photo). The flame should be in contact with the pipe. 5-MeO hcl requires a bit more heat to vapourise than 5-MeO freebase, and I think there is a fairly narrow temperature range between it vapourising and it burning. 5-MeO hcl is great for all other ROA's, but 5-MeO freebase is better for vaping...it's not hard to convert hcl into freebase, so that would be a suggestion, depending on how you get on. I've not got any experience vapourising 5-MeO hcl (only freebase or Bufo secretion), I think you will need to experiment with the lighter and vary the distance between it and the pipe...with the aim of vapourising it without burning it.