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Messages - RoundAbout

#16
Science / Re: Omega Brainwave Activity
October 24, 2018, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Rising Spirit on October 04, 2018, 12:27:58 AM
To be equally frank, there are no limits to conscious-awareness.  Intuition may not be a science but it is a force which often leads to new breakthroughs and discoveries.  "Who feels it knows it". 
Thanks for the response.
OK, so can you estimate the frequency in Hz and tell us which areas of the brain the omega frequency is most active in?
#17
Introductions/Newbies / Re: I'm the vagina guy!
October 18, 2018, 12:01:31 PM
Quote from: Jerry on October 12, 2018, 08:51:40 PM
The first post says the following:

QuoteA distant friend of our family recently took his life due to years of depression. Apparently, he saw his own suicide as the only possible solution. Hypothesis: Wouldn't it make sense to treat highly suicidal people with 5-Meo-DMT? I mean, if they are so depressed that they are going to take their life anyway, why not try to get them back on track with psychedelics?

I think the logic here is that it can't hurt, because they will kill themselves anyways. That relies on the assumption that they truly would kill themselves, which is difficult to truly know. I think it is difficult to know the limit of the depths of depression one can tolerate in some circumstances, especially while in the midst of it (as depression causes strong thought distortion).

Also, as much of the use of 5-MeO-DMT is not out in the open or with practitioners, there will presumably be a large survivor bias in anecdotes.

I think the research into treatment of depression using other compounds such ketamine and mushrooms (4-HO-DMT) might be more instructive.
#18
Edit: I think this discussion is about sourcing, which is against the terms of use.
#19
If purchased as a research chemical, many distributors will forward the results of their analyses if requested (often 1H NMR and some type of chromatography). There's some conflict of interest there though.
#20
Science / Re: Omega Brainwave Activity
September 25, 2018, 02:33:57 PM
Quote from: Rising Spirit on September 23, 2018, 08:46:54 PM
I strongly suspect that if said Omega state were easily detectable, it would surely be considered just another frequency of brain wave activity, albeit somewhat of an anomaly.  Then again, it may well be a state of suspended activity.  When thoughts become still, when Samadhi reaches full bloom, just what takes place neurologically?  The tools of the trade are created to find what they are crafted to locate. 

In my personal profession as a bench jeweler, lapidary artist, gemologist and long time student of the geometry of crystallography, we find that yesterday's parameters and established ranges of mapping well-established territories...   are today's antiquated, somewhat obsolete notions.  Each new breakthrough redefines the whole game.   Science is discovery not dogmatism.  Refractive indexes, specific gravity, internal structural density/hardness and chemical composition are set within a defined spectrum and until new examples arrive, these are essentially the laws by which the science as a whole, operates within. 

We catalog the known and the quantifiable phenomena.  Still, new gemstones are discovered that measure outside if established grounds and exist as the object of much delight amongst fellow gem peoples.  This expands the current stratagem to a new degree of possibility and demands alternative measurement (yet another paradigmatic occurrence redefining science and human understanding).  Likewise, the proposed Omega state could be outside of EEG's ordinary field of detection?  It's exciting to speculate.  ::)

I never said I disbelieve that spectacular undiscovered changes occur in the brain while under the influence of powerful molecules. I think that it seems unlikely that these changes are attributable to this omega frequency, unless you grant that it is somehow extremely difficult to detect. As a non-expert, assuming limitations of a technique and its engineering seems fraught unless well justified, especially if the limitation is present within the ordinary use of the technology. In absence of strong justification, it seems like one is disparaging the technology to advance their own beliefs.

To address the main thrust of your statements: I think an analogy can be made with mineralogy in the discovery of the first natural quasi-crystal, icosahedrite. It was found by searching databases of X-ray diffraction patterns that had the potential to be misinterpreted as minerals, while actually being quasi-crystalline (and therefore lacking translational symmetry). It was then confirmed with detailed measurements. Why was it searched for? The precedent was found in decades of quasi-crystal synthesis in chemistry. Unbeknownst to the researchers, this exact quasi-crystal had even been synthesized before, whereas this sample was from an asteroid. There are probably mountains of EEG data, but where is your precedent, and how will you actually search for it? Does it mimic seizure activity or something?

Quote from: Rising Spirit on September 23, 2018, 08:46:54 PM
Ouch and yeah, "OUCH" again.  Let's play nice.  I liked your reply simply because you made it, no agenda nor any bias involved.  You expressed your ideas clearly, providing documentation and that made me smile.  Thank you for your insights and the pertinent links...  but please, there's no need to condescend.  That being yelped, I strongly question the content of your projections about my ideas, as I base my theory upon my direct personal and supra-personal experiences, themselves born of deep inquiry and shifting attention from the relative, transitory mind sequences, towards a seamless immersion into the Unified Field.  Yes, my notion is inspired through intuition but that doesn't mean it is without validity.

I have come to discover that my brain is an incredibly complex processor of multifarious data, a repository of multiples of thoughts, impressions and ideas firing ad infinitum.  My hypothesis is neither fanciful nor is it a mere feeling.  Granted, it's like trying to describe a new color based on our perception of the infra red through ultra violet color spectrum.  Many intrepid psychonauts do report seeing new colors which exist beyond our ordinary understanding and defy any kind quantification.  After all, some things occur in extraordinary states of heightened  consciousness and cannot feasibly be measured outside of said higher states. 


Again, I sincerely thank you for your reply.  Be well and shine brightly.     _/|\_ _/|\_
I lack tact in the absence of tone, my apologies (not saying that reading my comment with proper tone would make it tactful, just that I resort to rudeness in text conversation to avoid confusion). I engage with consensus reality, and if you want to lead me a few steps off that path, I will entertain those notions. I will not follow you to your world, where few people are. I think that if you are unable to interface these two worlds for most people, they will have no desire to follow your exact thoughts. My comment on you not using an EEG before was simply a statement that the first step down that path might be comparing your state with the feedback from an EEG; this is not condescension. I don't know.

I agree that these experiences simply aren't understood scientifically. But why then, must they directly relate to this particular thing which is probably currently measurable? To be frank, it's what you thought while/from taking large amounts of drugs.

it is what it is
#21
General Discussion / Re: FULL RELEASE DOSE
September 19, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
I don't really know what you're asking, but perhaps you're confused about dosage for venom (which you used?) vs. pure.
#22
Science / Re: Omega Brainwave Activity
September 14, 2018, 11:45:01 PM
I don't have any expertise either, but humor me with a few suppositions.

Suppose that this omega brainwave has an amplitude similar to other brain waves, and thus is detectable. Perhaps this is a reasonable trait of a brainwave that you propose is so significant. To find the 'omega' frequency, you could look at a spectrogram made from the Fourier transform of the EEG data. To help visualize this, here an example of a EEG spectrogram: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lAldXrQ41h0/VD0IddnepAI/AAAAAAAACvo/JVi5WDpfI-Y/s1600/spec.png

As you can see, from 90 seconds time (x-axis), activity with a frequency (y-axis) of ~10Hz becomes pronounced as indicated by a prominent, continuous red band. This corresponds to alpha activity, and the author has labelled this as the period they closed their eyes. If a subject was on psychedelics, why couldn't there be a similar but wholly new omega frequency band just sitting in the spectrogram, appearing just as soon as the molecules entered their brain?

EEG is fairly simple technology that is being embraced by hobbyists, and professional researchers presumably have access to even more advanced equipment. There have been studies of people meditating, on drugs, and probably most other interesting states that can be induced while not moving too much. There is immense pressure to publish novel research. Why haven't they discovered this 'omega frequency'? Has it just been sitting there in the data all this time, despite many, many experts looking through this sort of data?

I think everyone would be interested in finding it. So how has it escaped everyone's attention?

Edit: To be more clear, it sounds like you're suggesting something likely detectable in a well researched area based on... a feeling? I doubt you've ever used an EEG to differentiate brain activity... it seems much more likely that you're just being fanciful. If you liked my comment based on believing it was somehow supporting your initial idea, it may be because you have a large bias.
#23
I've actually never used 5-MeO, but perhaps I have had similar post-trip alteration due to extremely strong experiences with another relatively non-visual psychedelic, morning glory.

For about 2-3 days my visual and auditory processing would sometimes flip back to altered states, and I consistently constructed sentences in strange ways if I didn't consciously avoid doing so. It waned strongly later in the week,  only showing itself when I was tired or otherwise stressed, then to baseline by the end of the week. I'm sure there is a lot of detailed information on integration and recovery; my method was simply to return to my ordinary positive habits, avoid destabilizing circumstances, and not over-think things.

I wish you well, please update in the future to let us know how things are going.
#24
I think use of non-secular language is generally preferable, but I think people latch on to secular language because one concept can accurately encompass sets of very specific, associated sensations. Once explanations come about these, I think that some of the most alienating, "out-there" language will be gradually phased out.

Quote from: MrToad on April 02, 2018, 04:32:27 AM
7. By definition, non-secular approaches will have less scientific evidence to support them.  After doing a lot of research I realised we can explain the post 5-MEO time, e.g. reactivations, anxiety, exhaustion, sleeping problems, euphoria, etc, in neurological terms.  I intend on writing a separate post on this topic.

Please do. Having a well researched explanatory model rather than an objective description would be great.
#25
There's a report and short discussion here if you didn't already read it: https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php?topic=50516
#26
I think the advantage of this device is mainly that it decreases the oxidation of vapourized 5-MeO-DMT. Perhaps there is a marginally decreased chance of recrystallization due to the use of a pump rather than flushing with air (i.e. inhaling through an ordinary pipe), but the cylinder is so large that I expect that it might actually be worse than typical devices. Also, you're obviously inhaling a chamber of oxygen free gas and holding it in for the effects of the substance, so I imagine it enhances experience through oxygen deprivation, but I don't really like that personally.

That said, is there any indication that 5-MeO-DMT oxidizes significantly during the administration process? Am I missing some aspect? Maybe inhaling a somewhat smaller volume is better? It seems a little more straight forward to use, but I don't really see the need.
#27
Articles / Re: Toad Licking Blues
February 03, 2018, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: Flux on August 29, 2017, 04:45:12 AM
A very interesting chapter that provides somewhat of a cultural history of toad use in the West;

Lyttle, T 2009, 'Toad Licking Blues', in 'You Are STILL Being Lied To: The NEW Disinformation Guide to Media Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths', Ross Kick (ed.), The Disinformation Guides Ltd.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nByOb_r4vo4C&pg=PT519&lpg=PT519&dq=toad+licking+blues+you+are+still+being+lied+to&source=bl&ots=RYzINw613V&sig=YihJ50Brslbjz2gn5Dmz76QRn7g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigpsaon_zVAhWGFJQKHSgKDhoQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=toad%20licking%20blues%20you%20are%20still%20being%20lied%20to&f=false

One of the first assertions is that bufotenine is not psychoactive. I think many people would disagree with this, especially as of late (as well as at the time of printing). I think this is fairly relevant even if 5-HO-DMT isn't nearly as prominent in toad venom, as 5-MeO-DMT is in part metabolized into bufotenine (although strongly dependent on allelic variaiton and MAOI consumption). I think the confusion is still present, and I don't see this disinformation guide dispelling it at all.

I couldn't read most of the history as Google Books wouldn't allow me it in the preview.
#28
Science / Re: Some interesting 5-MeO-DMT analogs
January 29, 2018, 03:34:03 PM
I enjoy your blog, and especially your chemistry related posts. I would definitely read more.

I've always wanted to read a succinct summary of serotonin receptor sub-types, their interaction with various psychedelics and how changing functional groups between analogues effects this. Maybe that is more of a biochemistry question though.
#29
Science / Re: Bufo-cybin ?
January 28, 2018, 12:49:41 PM
Quote from: HumbleVoyager on January 28, 2018, 08:56:07 AM
Hey there RoundAbout, I fixed the PDF for you. Sorry about that! You should be able to download and read now. Let me know if you still aren't able to.

In the paper, they talk about how when they did the experiment, the fungi stopped producing psilocin or psilocybin and instead were producing the phosphorylated compound 4-HO-DET (if I remember correctly). It also seems the quantity they got out was greater than what was put in, so perhaps once the fungi start producing the 4-HO compounds, they forget about the psilocin and psilocybin. It is a well-written paper, with a well-documented methodology.

I don't see enough information in the paper to calculate the amount in and out. But regardless, the paper never implies that the mushrooms are able to add an ethyl group, or any other feature not common to psilocybin or psilocin (the addition of groups common to these is the entire basis of this paper, i.e. 4-hydroxylation, O-phosphorylation and N-methylation). Likewise, if you added 5-MeO-DMT, the mushrooms could not add the 5-methoxy group just because you added some 5-MeO-DMT first... it simply does not have the enzymes to do such.

I think it's worth noting that the author is the same person that claimed to have boosted the psilocin content to record levels by addition of tryptamine. This hasn't been replicated despite being known for so long with a relatively simple and convenient process (and there has been much interest with many attempts).  Similarly, this is a very simple procedure that was published long ago, yet apparently no one has a properly documented success with it. I wonder why.

Thank you for making the paper accessible.

Edit: Corrected 4-phosphorylation to O-phosphorylation
#30
Science / Re: Bufo-cybin ?
January 28, 2018, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: Flux on January 24, 2018, 02:45:17 AM
Well this got my attention... (although I cannot imagine anyone having enough 5-MeO-DMT to explore this on anything other than a micro scale;

"Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus".

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

Interesting. I don't know why you would call it bufo-cybin though. Bufotenin is 5-HO-DMT, and this is 5-MeO. Cybin implies the phosphorylated version of 4-HO-DMT also (which might be produced too)

Quote from: HumbleVoyager on January 24, 2018, 06:25:12 AM
Fascinating! I remember this idea going around many times with various substances. For further reading, this paper seems of interest to understand the method more deeply (see paper attached).

It seems also fair to say that one would have no idea what would happen in vivo with that added hydroxy group. There has also been speculation that the fungi would only modify some tryptamine compounds (such as DET or DPT) yet not others, though I think further reading/investigation would be required. A curious concept, and a potential for synthesis, as I imagine one could theoretically produce 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT and then remove the 4-HO and end up with a pure extraction of 5-MeO-DMT. All speculation but intriguing nonetheless.

To produce 4,5 HO-MeO-DMT this way you would need to start with 5-MeO-DMT. Why would you bother adding it, extracting it from the mushrooms (which wouldn't produce nearly as much psilocin and psilocybin now), then remove the hydroxyl group? Are you suggesting it would really uptake it from unprocessed substrate or what? This doesn't make sense to me.

The uploaded PDF fails to open... I'm curious how much went in and came out.