Anyone else have 5-MeO-DMT related injuries?

[JO_neness]

I wonder if there are others like me who have done severe/permanent harm to their bodies after many many uses of 5-MeO-DMT. I noticed there isn't a thread on here yet talking about harm reduction, so this could be a place for us to talk about it.


If there's any other people who have permanent symptoms after chronic use such as buzzing, tremor, anxiety and insomnia, among others, please let it be known. I can't believe I'm the only one yet I feel so lonely. If anyone else is out there who is going through the same experience, please reach out. Thank you

[Rising Spirit]

I wonder if there are others like me who have done severe/permanent harm to their bodies after many many uses of 5-MeO-DMT. I noticed there isn't a thread on here yet talking about harm reduction, so this could be a place for us to talk about it.

I am so sorry you are still suffering, friend.  What do you mean by, "many many uses"?  How frequently had you been imbibing?  What have you been smoking, Toad venom or synthetic 5-MeO and in what dosages?  Too much medicine is in fact, often poisonous.  You cannot, however, do permanent damage, the body can always reset to health, although you may not exactly feel so right now.  In time you will be transformed into true, reborn and whole.  The first step towards rebirth is releasing the past traumas and embracing healing vibrations drawn from the source.  Find your connection to the source and follow it's teaching.   

Do give yourself some significant time to heal and please forgive me if this sounds rather blunt...  but please stop using entheogens for a while, whether 5-MeO or any other psychedelics, altogether.  Might it not be wise to take a much needed sabbatical?  I honestly suspect that you have gone to the well far, far too often without proper grounding and in so doing, have yet to restore balance via methodical integration. 

I did that myself with massive doses of real LSD-25, taken far too frequently, way back in the 1970s.  It's kind of like eating too much in one sitting.  Digest what you've over earnestly indulged in...  and put down the fork n' spoon.  Pronto.  I stopped all use of all entheogens for nearly 18 years, until I was ready to continue the medicine path with respect and some modicum of restraint.  Epic journeys are alluring but if overdone, the after effects mess with our return to ordinary life.  Less is more.  You will find the way, I sincerely wish you wellness.   

If there's any other people who have permanent symptoms after chronic use such as buzzing, tremor, anxiety and insomnia, among others, please let it be known. I can't believe I'm the only one yet I feel so lonely. If anyone else is out there who is going through the same experience, please reach out. Thank you

Again, your belief that your symptoms are permanent is so counterintuitive.  What is ever permanent about any existential paradigmn?  Healing and balance are a choice you must make and furthermore, you need to believe that you can find balance, that you can come to wholeness, that you can find peace.  This requires redirecting the same energy surges which you now suffer with, 180 degrees towards an unswerving faith, a foundation in sincere surrender, the intentional positive affirmations and an undaunted resolve to get busy integrating the immense forces surging within your dream bubble of self.  We all fly too close too the sun when we grow new wings.  But we rebound with humility and take new flight.  It's a journey that spans lifetimes beyond count.

Please don't misunderstand my reply as being unsympathetic or lacking empathy, as I do care and send some loving light your way.  It's just that it's paramount that you understand that you've unwittingly taken too much energy into your system.  The voltage was too great for your present ability to channel.  It is not uncommon.  Fear and discomfort can be great teachers if you listen to their message and heed the lessons they lay down.  Your biggest issue is an inability to find internal harmony and balance, yes?  If you believe it can manifest, it will.  If you believe it cannot...  then, it simply cannot.  Choose wellness and incrementally make it a living reality, mate.   

[JO_neness]

Thank you for responding.


By many many uses, I mean about 100 over the course of one year. Synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, 20 mg smoked. At one point I was doing this 3 times a in a session, following the method of Martin Ball (I don't recommend him obviously).

It's already been a year and a half since my last psychedelic and I still haven't improved. I'm pretty sure this is lasting brain damage.
You say you can't do permanent damage? In January of last year, I basically spent the whole month not sleeping at all. At the end of it, my skin started loosening and getting older, badly, in a short time. (confirmed by a dermatologist btw) That has not recovered and it isn't going to, it's only got worse in the year since I quit. I'm 24 years of age.

To be honest, I'm not much interested anymore in energy, teachings. That stuff gets real old when you can't have a good nights' sleep for over a year. I just want to lay down and rest. Probably jump off a cliff.

[physics envy]

Hi JO_neness,


I'm sorry to hear about the chronic issues you've been dealing with for the last year.


I don't know if you are 'friends' with Martin Ball on facebook or not, but he has been dealing with a severe insomnia issue for the last several months to the point of having to stop working, stop responding to emails, stop doing interviews...basically stop everything except working on his sleep issue and try to recover. 


He's posted many details along the way over the last few months regarding doctors he's seen, treatments he's used, etc. 


While he doesn't believe his issues are 5meo-induced, there are many similar sounding issues between the two of you.  Perhaps if you try to connect with him over facebook or via email, he may respond with some treatment suggestions or other help?   

[Flux]

 Hi JO_neness,


Firstly, I want to acknowledge the difficulties you are facing as very palpable and real as I have a very close loved one that suffered from LSD induced De-Personalisation and De-Realisation (and ended up needing pharmaceutical anti-depressants, in order to re-align other life-factors that were not conducive to optimal health) and it took us a little while to even discover that these syndromes/symptoms existed and the diagnosis helped - (up to a point, at which reading too much about a condition can exacerbate its effects). Too often these post-psychedelic challenges are dismissed via explanations that are more wooly-new-age woo than practical advice and there is a lot of blame and defensiveness about the precious medicine possibly causing harm as well as a degree of 'blame' when someone does need help...but some of us are are trying to change that and much respect to you for reaching out.


Without meaning to sound judgemental though, 100 x 20mg doses of 5-MeO (rightly considered one of the most powerful psychedelics known) in a year is heavy usage even the most ardent psychonauts among us - but due to the neuro-plastic states that research is showing this compound to have, I don't feel that what you are experiencing is permanent damage. What I think might be happening (with the qualifier here being 'I'm not a doctor'), is in line with what Rising Spirit has explained about an intense emergence or surge of energy left floating inside you that has no where to be 'earthed' and so, the mind we inhabit creates a kind of 'rupture' in which the pscyhe tries to separate from the intensity of the feelings... similar to how trauma works as essentially the experience of 'too much, too fast, too soon'. What I mean by neuro-plasticity is that you are in state of being in which the laying down of new patterns or ways of being is highly primed -for example lack of sleep perpetuating itself. So essentially you will go through a period of re-adjustment in which you will need to be a little strict with yourself, but by developing some very healthy lifestyle choices you will come back to the centre of your being stronger and more resilient.


I saw in another post of yours that someone had responded with a series of grounding techniques and modalities- which is essentially the best advice I have seen to work in these situations...do everything you can do come back to 'the body' (the mind and spirit will follow)- it is your vehicle so it needs maintenance (healthy food, rest, exercise, sleep, etc). The sleeplessness however, sounds like the hardest part to deal with and I would say if medication helps then use it for a little while to get some respite but know that these things are band-aids and will not address root causes only symptoms, so what you do while you have the respite is critical. From the experience with my family member it was a also a case of adjusting to what you are feeling as 'new normal' ..in other words, like the experience itself, acceptance of whatever arises is key and resistance will increase the tension. Finding a psychedelic-friendly integration counsellor will also help enormously as this experience is so very hard to get others to relate too, so someone who understands the powerful forces at work and how to deal with their effects will benefit heaps just in being able to talk face to face (or Skype at least) with someone who understands what is happening to you, has seen it happen before and knows the way forward.


A very pertinent article came out a few days ago from the good folks at Kahpi and while it is written in the context of ayahuasca, is relevant to all psychedelics and seems like it might be helpful: https://kahpi.net/after-ayahuasca-trauma-integration/?fbclid=IwAR0rflXuN84HFfaMD5C07HPxUFrg5z6qbmNC1NwvuAIVIiz8FC5XtctFKaw


Also if you are not already a member of the 'Toad & 5-MeO Forum & Support' group on Facebook, do sign up- as there are almost 7000 people there, many with a great deal of experience, expertise and wisdom in post 5-MeO integration and aftercare as well as support for challenging psychedelic experiences. There is also a list of resources in the files section which has some great integration resources;   https://www.facebook.com/groups/813691418706935/


Take great care and be kind to yourself (and I must also say thank you for inspiring me to become active again on this forum as I have been absent for a while),


deepest regards and sincere blessings,


Flux

[Rising Spirit]

Thank you for responding.


By many many uses, I mean about 100 over the course of one year. Synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, 20 mg smoked. At one point I was doing this 3 times a in a session, following the method of Martin Ball (I don't recommend him obviously)

So you are saying that you've had 100 journeys in one year?  From my perspective, that is way too many times to maintain internal balance and ground the teaching, through integration.  20mg is very, very potent and if some of your 100 journeys were with 3 sessions of 20mg in a single day...  no wonder you are having major health issues.  I have never exceeded 9 mg and I honestly though that taking 9mg might actually kill me.  You've way overloaded your system, my friend and that's an understatement.  My prayer for you is that you believe in your own innate ability to heal your system and find peace of mind. You are not alone.   

It's already been a year and a half since my last psychedelic and I still haven't improved. I'm pretty sure this is lasting brain damage.
You say you can't do permanent damage? In January of last year, I basically spent the whole month not sleeping at all. At the end of it, my skin started loosening and getting older, badly, in a short time. (confirmed by a dermatologist btw) That has not recovered and it isn't going to, it's only got worse in the year since I quit. I'm 24 years of age.

To be honest, I'm not much interested anymore in energy, teachings. That stuff gets real old when you can't have a good nights' sleep for over a year. I just want to lay down and rest. Probably jump off a cliff.

In all honesty, I keep going back and forth, trying to figure out your situation.  I sometimes think you are a troll who is trying to scare other people from ever trying 5-MeO-DMT.  That being said, I also can take your story at face value and feel tremendous empathy for your suffering.  May I ask you why you imbibed to frequently and in such high doses?  Where you seeking a breakthrough experience that just never happened?  Or were you just trying to remember what you had experienced in full peaking moments? 

Regardless of what I think about your posts on this site, please know that there is no permanent damage done, however doubtful you feel right now.  Of course, I am not saying that all "drugs" cannot leave damage to the body and mind, as that would be rather naive.  Alcohol, heoin and other harsh drugs can be quite destructive.   Even so, every cell in the human body is replaced by a new one, every seven years.  While your subtle nerves are no doubt fried from over indulgence...  you can find healing and balance in due time.  You have done what a lot of LSD users did in the 1960s and 1970s, you have overloaded your neurobiology with way, way too much of the sacrement.  Like Icarus, you have flown too close to the sun and have come crashing down from the sky to a difficult landing. 

Please don't entertain jumping off a cliff or a bridge or any other form of suicide.  Today is a new day and you've a long lifetime tomorrows to live.  The greater the overdose, the greater the need for incremental healing.  I do know that the first steps to lasting healing are those of faith, belief and positive affirmation.  It's time for you to create the space in your mind that can allow for healing and integration.  Please understand that I am sending light to you, even as I type these words.  Ask the universe for a new start and you will be rewarded by the degree that you believe you shall receive it.  As the Buddha wisely stated, "As you think, so you shall become."  Plant the seed of hope and be patient for it to grow. 

Ultimately, only you, yourself, can regain balance and find your way back to a healthy life.  I know I can speak for a good number of the members herein, that you are loved and compassionate prayers are winging their way to you.  Be receptive to changing your attitude.  Any imbalances can be righted and come to true.  Do stay clean of any psychedelics for a few years...   maybe even a decade?  For some souls, never imbibing again is necessary. 

My small advice, for the time being, is to work with your body and eat a good diet.  Take each moment as it comes and forge a new pathway for yourself.  Write a new chapter in the book of your life.  You and you alone, are the author of your own destiny.  Hold your head up, buddy.  Open your heart to a new start, a new dream (one which arises whole and grounded).

May you be reborn anew, friend.   

[Flux]

Hey JO_neness,


Apologies for any absence of response to this thread - I felt the sudden need to reach out to you and see how you are doing after a few months away.


I hope you have been able to find some relief and respite from the symptoms you were experiencing... and are feeling at least on the path back towards balance of mind/body/spirit and some feeling of 'normality' again.


It would be great to hear that you found some good integration support, counselling or a compassionate and understanding person to talk to about all of this and I would love to hear how you are going; regardless of where you're at and what's going on. If these sensations are still persisting, there are several people that can help, who I would like to recommend to you.


Please do reach out and make contact again either here (or via personal message).


kindest blessings,


Flux

[Handshake]

I second what’s been said in this thread.

5-MeO-DMT is a very powerful opener substance which can cause the nervous system to access things that it’s not ready to process, especially when working with higher doses at high frequency. It seems to me that these symptoms you are describing are very similar to somatic symptoms associated with trauma, which occurs when the nervous system is overwhelmed and lacks the resources to cope with what it is experiencing. I’m glad to hear you’ve gotten in touch with a professional to help work through these symptoms. I find that body-focused activities like yoga, martial arts, or other body-centered sports can help the system regulate better over time. Please do keep us updated on how things progress.

[shari]

hi Jo_ness,


I feel you. Although I have very little experience with this substance, only 2 times, I already exceeded my limits the second time when I had an absolute horror trip. I was back to 'normal' when the trip was over. But that night I didn't sleep at all and the day after it seemed like I was experiencing a psychotic episode with un underlying lower intensity of what I experienced during the trip and anxious thoughts of whether I had permanently damaged myself (my brain). I even had to call the ambulance and when I left the hospital I still felt like my perception wasn't ok as if I was drunk but not quite in the same way and somewhat 'stupid' in the sense that my brain wasn't functioning as well.   It's the second day after, I'm still not fully the old me, but I am better.


I was over or underhydrated or both, I'm not sure. Lost a lot of fluid.  They gave me a xanax which helped somewhat with the scary thoughts , but I also noticed my legs tremoring at times and believed I had permanent brain damage.
Since today is better, but still not entirely ok. At least I notice improvement, so I can tell you what I did:


At the hospital, they said my blood test came back normal. However, I thought my brain must have endured damage which they didn't check.


So back at home, I take some supplements which I know are good for your brain and nerves:
omega 3's (good for your brain)
choline (Choline is required to produce acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter that plays an important role in regulating memory, mood and intelligence )

inositol (Major neurotransmitters important for positive mood — serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine — rely on inositol to relay messages.  And neurotransmitters play a major role in most aspects of your life, including mood, productivity, ability to handle stress, ability to learn and remember, sleep, cravings, addictions, and more)
You may want to take higher than usual dosages of inositol, more info here
vitamin B 12 (the methylcobalamine form)  + folic acid:  vitamin B12 plays a vital role for the nervous system.  It is also involved in the synthesis of important messenger substances such as neurotransmitters and hormones that control our brain function, thus our perception, mood and state of mind. )
niacin 500 mg which is known to cause a 'flush' > it can make you look very red and warm for a while because it dilates blood vessels (Niacin is believed to protect brain cells from stress and injury.  Niacin is just another name for vitamin B3 and Vitamin B3 has many different functions in the human body. One of these functions is to increase detoxification and the physiological response to this is known as the niacin flush.)
I also took L-tyrosine, magnesium, vit C and saffron.

Lion's mane is known to protect against dementia, reduce mild symptoms of anxiety and depression and [/color]help repair nerve damage[/color].
[/color]
[/color]What I think may have helped most though, is the administration of ozone through my nose and rectally. I have an ozone machine (which you can buy off of ebay or aliexpress, such as here ).  Ozone can kill off toxins, because toxins can not survive in an oxygen rich environment.  Ozone has 3 oxygen molecules. One goes to toxins and kills them and what's left is oxygen.  When you do it by breathing via the tube into your nose, you may not be able to do it for long as it can make you cough severely (hard on the lungs, but not bad in my experience, although some believe it's bad on the lungs but I don't believe that, so please  do your research before attempting it)
[/color]
[/color]I wish you a speedy recovery!
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[Handshake]

Hi Shari,

Hopefully this video can be helpful for you: https://relationshipispsychedelic.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Returning-from-All_-Integrating-5-MeO-DMT-Experiences-in-Psychotherapy-with-Rafael-Lancelotta.mp4

Cheers,
HV