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Hey Flux,

Thanks for your input here, you make some great points. And yes I think the individualised, slowly measured cautious approach is the name of the game here. You make a very good point about sub-breakthrough doses...I know of another member of the 5-Hive team who thinks this is highly valid territory worthy of exploration...and the gradual, incremental approach sounds like an excellent way to proceed with working with 5-MeO. I recall some research on psilocybin conducted at Johns Hopkins, the research team there led by Prof. Roland Griffiths noted that study participants who had experienced a small dose of psilocybin prior to the high dose were prone to noticeable less anxiety states during the high dose experiences in comparison to participants that did not receive this smaller dose prior. But yes, given the wide variation in idiosyncratic reactions and the great potency and power of this substance, this seems like a sound approach to take.

Great advice too regarding avoiding talking and remaining still after the experience to aid with integration, I have a feeling this is some really sound advice, and I will be sure to keep this in mind for my next experience.

Thanks for chiming in here, I will amend these guidelines accordingly.

Hi Flux,

Thanks for the welcome. And yes it would be great to see this site in time grow into something that mirrors the DMT Nexus, in terms of soundness and comprehensiveness of a resource, and I feel this site will be of great benefit to many. It has a great team behind it so I have no doubts it will blossom.

See you around! 

Cheers,
Bancopuma

Hi Flux,

Lots of good articles here, this is a great resource, thank you for taking the time to compile this! I would just like to point out the 5-MeO-DMT subreddit group to 5-Hive members...a good community there, and I've been doing my best of late to expand the group content with what I consider the highest quality and most informative 5-MeO resources and information on the web. Given 5-MeO's profound potency and power, it's all the more important that people and users, prospective or active, have access to high quality information, even compared to other psychedelics. I will be sure to go through the list you have compiled here and link articles accordingly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/5MeODMT/

This is a really fantastic and well written article, thanks a lot for taking the time to write it, one of the better writings on toad/5-MeO out there...I think this should be considered close to mandatory reading for any prospective toad/5-MeO voyagers, and I've shared it widely. Bravo!

Really interesting description here of a 14 day darkness retreat, and some very intriguing parallels with 5-MeO/toad experiences...

"At one point in my meditation, my head opened and flooded with light. I watched and felt this quiet bliss and gladness take over and noticed that my body became pure vibration."

"I was absorbed into this light, and this light became the entirety of space around me until I was only this giant, radiant light-filled void. I was real and home again and bigger than a trillion of our suns."

"I was a gigantic bigger-than-all-concept-of-universe radiant unending shimmering ball of light emanating perfect compassion forever without cause."

"Even my experiences of perceiving the maya, of perceiving emptiness and suchness throughout my whole "life as Lindsey" as a spiritual seeker could not come close to this total absorption into self-remembering perfection of total...er...uh...beyond words and description annihilation into truth-light." ...etc.

http://www.hopedance.org/home/awakenings/2051-lindsey-vona

Extrapolating further, notice the profound similarities between these three experiences, despite being triggered by very different things.

"I became Consciousness facing the Absolute. It had the brightness of myriad suns, yet it was not on the same continuum with any light I knew from everyday life. It seemed to be pure consciousness, intelligence and creative energy transcending all polarities. It was infinite and finite, divine and demonic, terrifying and ecstatic, creative and destructive..." – 5-MeO-DMT account (Stan Grof)

"As I neared the warm glowing radiance ahead of me, I felt pure ecstasy. I was in the beginning of the light. I was part of the light...It was as if I had come home. I had come home to the beginning of not just me but the beginning of all eternity." – NDE account (via Kenneth Ring)

"I was absorbed into this light, and this light became the entirety of space around me until I was only this giant, radiant light-filled void. I was real and home again and bigger than a trillion of our suns." – Darkness retreat account (Lindsey Vona)

"The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring louder, I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light. It is impossible to describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that was myself growing wider surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness without any outline, without any idea of corporeal appendage, without any feeling or sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light simultaneously conscious and aware at every point, spread out, as it were, in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction. I was no longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a small point of awareness confined to a body, but instead was a vast circle of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in a state of exultation and happiness impossible to describe." – Account of Kundalini awakening (Gopi Krishna)

...all describe a sense of encountering a great light, a oneness with this light, a profound sense of ecstasy/bliss/love, a sense of infinity/eternity, and a sense of cosmic homecoming. Other very similar accounts crop up commonly among NDE and 5-MeO-DMT experiences, as well as OBE's, lucid dreams, psychedelics and spontaneous mystical experiences, and similar things have been described by meditators, yogi's and Taoists for a very long time. Intriguing how such different triggers can all seemingly lead to the same place.

I dig the whole vibe of going into darkness to find the light, this makes me very intrigued about experiencing a darkness retreat... 

Makes me curious as to whether there could possibly be a link between these experiences and that infamous pineal gland. The pineal gland, as well all know, is light sensitive and regulates our sleep/wake cycle through its production of melatonin in the absence of light. In most of our "normal" lives, the pineal gland does not experience prolonged darkness, lasting a week or more. So it seems feasible there is some kind of neurochemical changes that could be taking place.

Speculating further, the Taoists have a hypothesis, that in extended darkness, the pineal gland secretes melatonin, and once levels of melatonin cross a certain threshold, pinoline (endogenous MAOI) is produced, and once levels of this cross a certain threshold, then endogenous 5-MeO-DMT, and then DMT are produced. This is pure speculation of course, there is no evidence as yet to support this, but it makes for interesting pondering.

http://www.universal-tao.com/dark_room/enlightenment.html

Interesting to note that according to some soon to be published 5-MeO-DMT brain imaging research mentioned in in Dr Geraldo Ruben Sandoval Isaac's book 'The God Molecule'..."upon neuroimaging a predominant increase in blood flow of the limbic system, medulla and pineal gland were noted" [under 5-MeO-DMT].

Anyway, the experiences described here or so incredibly similar to people's descriptions of 5-MeO-DMT experiences, I think this may be more than just mere coincidence, and it could be playing a role in these other endogenous experiences. Would be fascinating to have more replication of such darkness retreats, as well as some research into the brain waves and neurochemical/hormonal changes over the course of the retreat...as far as I know there has been zero such research. Any thoughts peeps?

Hey peeps, some advice here I've compiled for anyone wanting to work with 5-MeO safely, with the intention of getting the most out of it. I'm certainly not advocating this approach as the only way, this is a personal path, and different strokes for different folks! I just figured some guidelines could minimise potential risks and be of value to 5-MeOnauts, particularly people who are new to the compound. These guidelines came about through exchanges with a number of seasoned explorers of 5-MeO space including James Oroc and Martin Ball, and the guidelines have been vetted and approved by admins of the 5-Hive forum, who really know their 5-MeO. I hope they prove helpful.

- Consume the 5-MeO in a safe and secure setting in quiet and comfortable surroundings, lying or comfortably reclining on a bed, mat or recliner chair, with all breakable or potentially dangerous objects removed from the vicinity. Make sure all potential sources of distraction or intrusion such as phones, animals or people coming in have been dealt with. The presence of a sober sitter would definitely be highly recommended if you are new to the compound.

- Be sober and free of intoxicants or medications. Cannabis is not contraindicated with 5-MeO, and may allow one to stay in the space for longer, but it certainly isn't necessary. One should not be on MAOI's, RIMA's or SSRI's at the time. Avoid alcohol. It is good to be well rested, well-nourished and well hydrated prior to a session, but to have an empty stomach. It is good to consume a light healthy meal 3-4 hours prior to the experience, but then refrain from eating. Drinking a good amount of water in the day prior is also recommended, but one can refrain from imbibing liquids 2 hours prior to ingesting the 5-MeO. One should be calm and centered with a mind as clear and uncluttered as possible going into the experience.

- Some people may find a preparatory session of yogic asanas and deep breathing in the form of yogic pranayama exercises may be advantageous in providing a state of calm relaxation going into the experience. This is well worth experimenting with, and may synergise positively with the experience and aid in both witnessing and integration of the experience. A session of yogic box breathing (breathe in for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds - breathe out for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds...and repeat) prior to one's experience may prove beneficial, and it may be used as a navigational aid later on in the experience. Alternate nostril breathing, known as Nadi shodhana pranayama, would be another great alternative or supplementary breathwork practice.

- If vaporising, a torch lighter and glass lollipop pipe make for a highly effective means of launching. One should apply the lighter to the bowl of the pipe containing the measured dosage and heat for 10 seconds or so, while observing the 5-MeO melting and turning to vapour. Prior to smoking, take a few deep breaths, and prior to taking the pipe, breathe out completely. Then with the pipe, take a long, slow, deep breath. Hold one's breathe as long as they can comfortably, set the pipe aside, and then lie down. One can count to 10 after lying down with their breathe held if they wish. If using the pipe repeatedly in a ceremonial context, it is important to be aware of potential 5-MeO residues in the pipe which may affect subsequent dosages.

- Stagger up one's dosage at 1/2mg at a time, to find one's individual release/OBE dose (this will vary widely, and this is definitely not a "one size fits all" vibe when it comes to dosage). Alternatively, start off with low sub-breakthrough doses and build up from there as one desires to gain a feel for 5-MeO and to allow for idiosyncratic variations in response to the substance, and being familiar with the substance at low doses should be of benefit when dosing higher and venturing into deeper experiential waters. More is not better here, and the minimal dose required for release will reduce white-outs and amnesia and allow for more recall of the experience, while minimising risks...worth remembering that 5-MeO is a far more potent drug than N,N-DMT and more care is required when dosing. One can either use a highly sensitive scale (which can be expensive), or acquire some milligram measuring scoops (much cheaper, just not as precise) for this purpose.

Advice on accurate dosing using milligram measuring scoops is provided here:

https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php?topic=50423.0

- Don't think, just be, just breathe. Don't try and analyse or understand the experience as it is occurring, just allow the experience to unfold and you can contemplate it later.

- Let yourself go, dissolve, surrender.

- Stay in the light as long as possible. Remain relaxed, focussed and symmetrical in the body.

- On returning to the body following the experience, avoid talking and remain still and silent, either lying down or in meditative posture. This will better allow one to integrate the experience.

- Some soft instrumental music may be advantageous for people coming back from a 5-MeO journey. It may also act to mask other sounds if partaking in an urban environment.

- If partaking in a ceremonial context with others and someone seems to be tensing up and having a hard time, some gentle soothing words of reassurance to relax and let go, or brief physical contact may prove helpful, along with some soothing music. If partaking in a ceremonial context with others, it would be recommended to keep such groups small, and only one person at a time should partake of the 5-MeO. If anyone appears to be having trouble breathing and looks like they may vomit, move the person onto their side in the recovery position, and vomiting will happen if it needs to. Generally if vomiting does occur, the experience will relax into the experience.

- Post experience, one may experience reactivations. These well reduce in frequency over time, and tend to occur during sleep or at times of deep relaxation. People may also experience reactivations during meditation or breathwork practice and when using psychedelics or cannabis. It is best to experience these reactivations with acceptance and a positive mindset. They will level off over time. Activities such as physical exercise, yoga, meditation, Tai chi, Qigong, dance, breathwork, floatation, shamanic drumming, time in nature and other forms of exertion and relaxation may help to ground this energy, while also keeping the flame of your experiential insights burning bright and aide with integration of the experience. Some people may find it valuable to connect with others who have been through the experience. There are a number of online communities and groups where such connection is possible, but the 5-Hive forum would come particularly recommended.


...do others here have any other advice or suggestions they would consider important to add here? Suggestions welcomed!

Following this experience, I had a second encounter with a release dose of Bufo secretion with the same session provider, in the same setting at a later time more recently. This time, I entered into the experience sober, and I seemed to recall more of the experience compared to my first time. I recall one quite amazing but also quite freaky event, in which events and experiences and feelings associated with my life started to flash past my mind's eye at incredible speed. And not in a linear way, but everything seemed to happening all at once, in one extended moment, beyond time. This was experienced as intensely disturbing when it was happening, as brief as it was (although being beyond time...at the time...it lasted long enough!). I guess this is where I should have surrendered and relaxed more into the experience, it was my first time experiencing something as bizarre and mind warping as this and I guess my ego found it threatening. I hope when I come to explore the 5-MeO realms again, I will be able to relax, breathe and surrender to the experience more, as while this was pretty disturbing, it was also quite amazing, and I feel I may have been close to some kind of breakthrough or transcendence. This this state sound familiar to any other voyagers?

An opportunity presented itself to partake of Bufo alvarius toad secretion, as we know, a rich source of 5-MeO-DMT, and I decided I wanted to experience this. This would be under the supervision of Mexican doctor with a great deal of experience administering toad secretion/5-MeO. Just the once, and for a full release dose, I was happy to experience this under the supervision of a doctor and someone with a great deal of experience in overseeing sessions.

So, my session...I found myself wandering through an industrial part of northeast London. I was excited and a little nervous. I had come down on the train to London the night before, and had been reading James Oroc's fascinating book Tryptamine Palace on the way down. In it, Oroc states that 5-MeO taken before another psychedelic can dramatically boost its effects...he also stated that it worked the other way around, with being on a psychedelic boosting the power of 5-MeO. Based on this, I decided to ingest a 10 microgram LSD blotter (these having been used for microdosing purposes) and two small dried Psilocybe cyanescens mushrooms. I'm not sure 5-MeO needs any augmentation in terms of power, but I didn't want to miss out on the opportunity of going deep!

I finally found two barge boats, on which people had gathered in preparation for the session. A small friendly group was in there, including the host and a good friend, and I felt comfortable on arrival. The other barge next to this one had been kitted out and made cosy for the sessions, which were conducted in a one-on-one context on a bunk in there. The session provider briefed us on how to smoke the vapour correctly...by breathing out, and then inhaling the fumes gently from the glass lollipop pipe until he said, then putting a hand over one's mouth, and counting to 10 while lying down.

Everyone who went before me and came out seemed to be in a state of awe, with a sparkle in their eyes, one person had been in tears. My friend went before me, and she came out with a very glowing testimonial, an experience of pure love. She is an atheist and a highly rational person, but she said that experience had challenged her views to some degree...not that she was now a believer or anything...but the experience had certainly been very deep, moving and profound.

It was my turn, so I hopped on over to the other boat. I started to feel more nervous, which reached a crescendo with my heart racing before I smoked the vapour. The dosage was 100mg of dried Bufo secretion, roughly equivalent to 15mg of 5-MeO-DMT (give or take a few milligrams). The session provider and his assistant, a lovely girl, both made sure I was comfortable and we held hands and did a prayer before I smoked. Then the flame of a torch lighter was applied to the pipe for a few seconds, and I started to inhale. I made sure to do it slowly, being careful not to waste any vapour. When I was done inhaling, I placed my hands over my mouth as instructed, lay down in the bunk, and started to count to 10. I'm not sure what number I made it too, but I certainly didn't make 10. There was a dramatic break or shift in my awareness, and I lost all contact with the barge, with London, with my body and this reality...a total OBE. My entire being was enveloped in this vast realm of bright white/golden light fractals, which I was flying through. I know 5-MeO isn't considered very visual compared to DMT, and certainly DMT is more visually complex, but this was still a dramatically visionary experience. My sense of individual self, of my "Isness" was obliterated, but some kind of awareness remained, experiencing flying through this realm of light fractals in a state of pure oneness. I find the 5-MeO experience incredibly hard to describe in words. The experience is, or occurs in, a state so far beyond the realm of words, that it is really hard to communicate the state or its profundity in any tangible way. The state of consciousness I experienced felt very deep, profound and quite sacred. Sacred is not a word I'm prone to use, and I appreciate how subjective it is, but this experience felt profound in a way I simply cannot describe in words. I have dabbled previously with 5-MeO, but those experiences could not hold up the faintest candle to this experience, in terms of its depth and power. There was a bit of fear for some time, due to the sheer raw power of the experience. I would consider this more powerful than my DMT breakthrough experience...in the latter, there was still a sense of I experiencing and observing, even if I had lost contact with my body and environment...on the 5-MeO, even the act of observing had been lost in the mix.

I really can't say how long the experience lasted...linear time does not apply to that space. But it seemed like a decent amount of time. When I started to come back, I finally opened my eyes and looked at the skylight of the barge, and saw a tiny fly buzzing around up there, I knew I was back. I felt supremely relaxed once I became aware of my body again, and the post experience afterglow state was very warm and comforting. I was racked by full-body, teeth-chattering body tremors on re-entry. I smiled, sat up and caught the eyes of the session provider and his assistant and laughed, they smiled and nodded, and then I promptly burst into tears briefly. It is not like me to cry in the midst of or following psychedelic experiences, and I can't really explain why I did on this occasion, only that I was overwhelmed with the power, profundity and beauty of what I had just experienced. The guys hugged me, and I hugged them both back, and then joined the collective of people in the barge next door, still very awed about what I had just been through. Shortly after I left with my friend and went and had some nice food and chats. It was nice to reflect on the experience with a friend, even though we both really struggled to describe (let alone explain) what we had both just been through.

Later that night, I linked up with some friends to have a psychedelic session, and two hour long sessions in a floatation tank (my first time floating). We all dosed with a capsule of 4-AcO-DMT, and some of us nibbled a few Psilocybe cyanescens mushrooms on the side. The trip setting was a little strange, in terms of people vibes. One guy there was clearly there to get high on whatever was to hand, and chat and laugh...he had a really restless energy. Another guy was also restless, but going through some deep stuff. One of the other guys was on good form and wanting to chat, but getting distracted by these other two restless characters. My other friend in hindsight regrets taking mushrooms/4-AcO in that environment, he has been enjoying solo trips with mushrooms I have provided him with, for the purposes of therapy, and he feels he missed out on a therapy session by consuming the mushrooms in this setting. I had thought the setting would be much more calm and sedate then it turned out to be, I'd assumed we'd all be floating. I made the most of the opportunity, and had two hour long float sessions. I had one while coming up on my 4-AcO/mushroom mix. I took me around half the float session to really get comfortable, and when I had started to get comfortable, I had started to come up, with the darkness of the tank getting ever brighter with lights and colours, and the visionary spaces starting to open up. By the time I got out, I was feeling very calm and zen, and this affected the rest of my trip. While other peeps seemed quite restless, I felt very calm and serene, I was happy to sit down with legs crossed and eyes closed, chatting occasionally, more so as the night wore on, but happy to pay attention to what was unfolding in my inner space. One of the guys commented that I was a rock...I think partly I was in in a good space due to floating, but partly also due to the profound difference in experiential magnitude between a release dose of 5-MeO and the 4-AcO/mushrooms...the latter just felt so easy going and light in comparison!

It was really interesting, but as the night wore on, I noticed that I was increasingly accessing the state of light I experienced earlier in the day on the 5-MeO, and my trip seemed to be deepening at the same time, when otherwise I would have been expecting to be coming down! I had another float session, and got more out of this one...I was in the zone from the outset, and it was nice being able to pay attention to my inner state without the distractions of other people. I really enjoyed the experience of floating. When I stretched out I could look behind myself, and it felt a lot like how I imagine being weightless in space must feel like. I felt refreshed and serene on getting out. I would definitely be intrigued to combine floatation with psychedelic experiences in the future, and would be interested in longer float sessions too.

Finally, around 6 in the morning following a day of deep psychedelic consciousness exploration, it was finally bed time, and as I drop off to sleep on my friends couch, several times I find myself powerfully launching into the 5-MeO state!! At the time, this was fleetingly scary, as I felt my awareness dramatically shifting quite suddenly, although it was primarily really interesting, it never lasted long (seemed to occur on the boundary of waking and sleeping) but I have never experienced anything this vivid before in terms of psychedelic after effects! I have certainly experienced DMT and 5-MeO inspired dreams after having used both, but I've not had such vivid experiences of re-entering the 5-MeO state in partial waking consciousness, so long after the event.

I've heard that there can be 5-MeO reactivations for some time after one's initial experience, such as during meditation, following breathwork or when dreaming, and also that one can gain access to the 5-MeO state when using other psychedelics, which after my experiences doesn't come as much of a surprise.

I would definitely consider this experience with 5-MeO as one of my all-time peak life experiences (but also the hardest for me to explain), up there with my DMT breakthrough, my first time with iboga, and a few others. I would rate this experience as my most powerful. The release dose of experience of 5-MeO...going by my reading on these things...seemed to have more in common with a near death experience than a traditional psychedelic experience in some respects, and its power should in no way be underestimated...without a doubt this is some heavy duty, deep end stuff!! It should not be entered into lightly and it is certainly not a recreational substance at these dosages. I do however feel very lucky to have experienced this...it's truly wondrous and amazing what a human being can experience.

Thanks for the very warm welcome Xzen! It's great to be here. I think a place like this will be of immeasurable value to the emerging 5-MeO community.

See you around! 

Hi All!

Bancopuma here...I'm a long term member of the DMT Nexus, and recently learned of this great forum through a good friend that helped set this place up. The Nexus is a great community I've learned a lot from and I've made a post there about this forum to invite Nexians to come on over. Given the rising interest in 5-MeO, and its potency and power, I thought the creation of a forum like this was very timely indeed and a very positive step forward. Extra important that high quality information and a supportive online community is out there connected to this substance. I also very much resonated with the stated mission aims of the 5 Hive team, to develop a really mature and comprehensive 5-MeO resource.

I'm a pretty well-travelled psychonaut, but this year I experienced two release doses of 5-MeO in the form of Bufo alvarius defensive secretion. These were very powerful and profound experiences, and I've not ever been so deeply affected by a psychedelic experience before, particularly with my last, more recent experience, which took some time to integrate. I hope to learn more about how to better prepare and integrate this experience, so I can bring back more experiential insight with me and make the most of the experience. I look forward to learning more and contributing to this community.

Great to be here!