Author Topic: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin  (Read 1526 times)

Offline Rising Spirit

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4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« on: January 28, 2023, 11:01:44 AM »
A wonderful new form of 5-MeO-DMT has allegedly been created and this ushers in an ingestible form of the sacrement, 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT.  It is produced by introducing 5-MeO to pscilocybe cubensis mushrooms, although the 5 is wholly predominant  What a beautiful synthesis!  I've yet to be anointed but it is very exciting news.  Some really good folks had created a church and support network for it's members.  I just wanted to  share the info with you all.  Their website is: [Redacted because we don’t source on this forum]   _/|\_ _/|\_
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 07:55:54 AM by HumbleVoyager »
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Offline famine

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2023, 05:39:40 AM »
Do not trust the Church. A bunch of criminals with false promises. GCMS and other analytical techniques DO NOT DECOMPOSE 4ho5meodmt. All analysis at the moment show no 4ho5meodmt present in their shrooms. A lot of mycologists tried do this years ago and failed. Only base tryptamines were successful.


If they can send a sample that shows 4ho5meodmt in the analysis. Only then believe them.

Offline Rising Spirit

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2023, 08:07:47 AM »
I've spoken to several reliable folks who confirm the presence of 5-MeO-DMT in these shrooms, most notably Martin Ball.  And yes, I do share your trepidation about churches and such organizations.  But so far these folks are loving and informative.   I have joined the church, as only members are able to purchase the mushrooms and will report back when I consume the sacrament.  Be well and shine brightly.   _/|\_ _/|\_   
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 12:03:49 PM by Rising Spirit »
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Offline Handshake

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2023, 07:53:53 AM »
Please don’t promote this church until there is GCMS evidence. We have submitted a sample of the sacrament for testing and will post an update once we have an analytical report available.

Do not trust the Church. A bunch of criminals with false promises. GCMS and other analytical techniques DO NOT DECOMPOSE 4ho5meodmt. All analysis at the moment show no 4ho5meodmt present in their shrooms. A lot of mycologists tried do this years ago and failed. Only base tryptamines were successful.


If they can send a sample that shows 4ho5meodmt in the analysis. Only then believe them.

Do you have any analyses you can post to the forum?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 07:58:22 AM by HumbleVoyager »

Offline rainbowbody

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2023, 02:31:19 PM »
Definitely interested to see results from GCMS as well.
Lots of good anecdotal reports especially at the microdose level

Offline Rising Spirit

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2023, 08:14:47 AM »
Please don’t promote this church until there is GCMS evidence. We have submitted a sample of the sacrament for testing and will post an update once we have an analytical report available.


Understood...  and I am quite eager to know the test results.  Thank you for your endeavors.   _/|\_ _/|\_
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Offline famine

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2023, 03:16:51 PM »

I have attached to this post, a friend who sent the powder to a lab. This should be enough to STAY AWAY FROM THE CHURCH. They are a group of chartalans.


I personally talked to their chemists, they do not know chemistry, they are amateurs who are following recipes. They do not know basics of analytics and just say bullshit claims like 4ho5meodmt decomposes during analysis.. such a joke.


All anecdotal reports cannot be taken seriously. Even taking 5meodmt before changed shrooms for me completely. I can get full on 5meodmt experiences on them. Let alone if I believe it will give me that.

Offline Handshake

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2023, 11:25:52 AM »
Thank you for sharing this important report, famine.

We have sent a sample for analysis as well and will be publishing it here as soon as it becomes available.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 09:16:07 AM by Handshake »

Offline rainbowbody

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2023, 10:00:10 AM »
Am eager to see analytical results as well.
Interesting that Martin Ball appears to be completely sold on it…

Offline famine

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2023, 06:56:12 AM »
Am eager to see analytical results as well.
Interesting that Martin Ball appears to be completely sold on it…


I will have analytics on a different batch too shortly. Will keep you updated

Offline Handshake

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2023, 07:59:31 AM »
New analysis and article just published:

Fungi Fiction: Analytical Investigation into the Church Of Psilomethoxin's Alleged Novel Compound Using UPLC-HRMS

Quote
Abstract
The Church of Psilomethoxin claims to produce a novel tryptamine by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the substrate of cultivated Psilocybe mushrooms, which is then biosynthesized into psilomethoxin, the church’s sacrament. In this study, we investigate the validity of this claim using comprehensive analytical techniques, namely ultra-performance liquid chromatography with high-resolution mass spectrometry (UPLC-HRMS). Authentic reference standards for structurally related tryptamines were used for comparison. Our findings revealed no evidence to suggest that the compound psilomethoxin is present in samples of material that the church is offering to their members online. Psilocybin, baeocystin, and psilocin, were, however, unambiguously identified in the sample, suggesting that the claims regarding the biosynthesis of psilomethoxin may be misguided. The implications of these findings should be critically considered within the context of public health and safety.

https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/64358de9736114c96352edf9
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 03:31:15 PM by Handshake »

Offline rainbowbody

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2023, 03:11:39 PM »
Wouldn’t a reference sample of psilomethoxin be needed to verify or refute presence the same way that reference samples for psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin, etc. were used?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 03:25:35 PM by rainbowbody »

Offline Handshake

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2023, 03:28:31 PM »
Good question. This is what Dr. Sherwood had to say about that question:

“That's a great question!
Although psilomethoxin had not been produced as a standard (this is underway and hence why the manuscript is a preprint), we were able to search for the presence or absence of it based on its proposed molecular structure and its exact monoisotopic mass. By comparing the retention time and accurate mass of the ions detected in the sample with those of known tryptamines, it was quite clear that psilomethoxin was not detected in the sample (and would have been if present).”
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 03:31:50 PM by Handshake »

Offline Handshake

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2023, 12:08:14 PM »
The Church of Psilomethoxin has issued a statement on their website in response:
https://psilomethoxin.com/psychedelic_capitalism/

Although the statement says that the church has never claimed their sacrament to contain psilomethoxin, there is content on their website to suggest otherwise [see attachment].

Offline ayalight

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Re: 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT & The Church of Psilomethoxin
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2023, 09:38:12 AM »
I will eventually do a more in depth analysis of what the Church of Psilomethoxin wrote in response to the Usona paper. These are my initial thoughts. 

Their whole endeavor is predicated on the assertion that they are producing, distributing and using psilomethoxin. That is the name of their church. Their legal claims for being able to use it are based on its alleged legality  because it is not specifically listed as a scheduled substance (though this is highly dubious given that it’s pharmacological structure and phenomenological effects are so similar to other scheduled substances that it would likely be covered under the Analog Drug Act).

Their claim that a reference sample is needed to affirm or deny the presence of psilomethoxin appears to be sketchy.  Here is how one of the papers authors answered that:
“Although psilomethoxin had not been produced as a standard (this is underway and hence why the manuscript is a preprint), we were able to search for the presence or absence of it based on its proposed molecular structure and its exact monoisotopic mass. By comparing the retention time and accurate mass of the ions detected in the sample with those of known tryptamines, it was quite clear that psilomethoxin was not detected in the sample (and would have been if present).”

The argument that the presence of psilomethoxin in their sacrament is a religious belief is specious and incredible. This is not a matter of belief. It is a matter of chemistry. Religious beliefs have to do with a wide range of metaphysical, theological and existential assertions. Whether or not a specific molecular configuration is present in a given substance is not in the domain of religion. It is the domain of physics and chemistry.

While no psilomethoxin has been found, psilocybin, psilocybin and baeocystin were found (this is at least the second analysis that has shown this). Their response was to call these "trace" amounts. I will have to look into what these levels are. People sometimes say there are only trace or small amounts of DMT in ayahuasca. This may be true in terms of absolute weight yet not in terms of efficacy.

I'll note too that on social media they are referring to the Usona paper as being AI generated. Of course, they are not backing that assertion up with any clear reasoning much less evidence!

Beyond this their claim to be a church with members who express sincere beliefs is also very shaky. Anyone will be sent the capsules as long as they answer the questions in an appropriate way. It is not required to have one on one much less face to face discussions and relationships to procure the capsules. And, of course, those who obtain them can store, use and distribute them in any way they want. If nothing else this would never fly with the likely federal regulations that may evolve (and this is a federal matter since they are using interstate mail).

FYI, I feel people should be, more or less, free to use psychedelics as they wish with whom they wish regardless of how that use is characterised as long as it is done in a safe and ethical manner. Yet, we are far from that social and legal reality. I think it is incumbent that we characterise our beliefs, use and engagements in an honest, authentic and integris way as we move forward in claiming our full freedom to use these powerful and amazing medicines, sacraments, agents....
More to come.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 09:43:39 AM by ayalight »