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5-MeO-DMT in Phalaris grass species

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Bancopuma:
I thought this could do with its own thread. Viable botanical sources of 5-MeO-DMT are lacking, when compared to N,N-DMT sources. My feeling is that the various Phalaris grass species remain relatively unexplored, and I think they hold perhaps the greatest potential of providing a viable botanical source of 5-MeO-DMT, of all the plants we know so far that contain it.

An interesting passage I've just spied on the DMT Nexus, taken from The Entheogen Review:


--- Quote ---Phalaris arundinacea 'Turkey Red' Plant:

From The Entheogen Review Vol. XI 2002:-

My old, "Turkey red," was selected to produce 5-MeO-DMT because this is the alkaloid that I personally prefer for my own work and the work I do with groups around the country. I feel 5-MeO-DMT most closely mimics the natural enlightenment state of a fully functioning pineal-gland. It does not distract one with visuals, but open one's energy field and dissolves the energetic barriers between people. By taking about 75mg of the "Turkey red" extract - equivalent to about 7.5mg of 5-MeO-DMT - potentiated with a RIMA such as Syrian Rue, one can experience much healing, and in the right group, a unification of consciousness within the group. I believe this medicine has a role to play in the next stage of evolution, which must involve some form of group consciousness.

There are about five other alkaloids in Turkey red as well. I do not know what most of them are. I have tried to experiment of separating out just the 5-MeO-DMT and taking that orally with a MAOI, and I do get and effect, comparable to that of chemically produced pharmahuasca from synthesised 5-MeO-DMT. However, It does not have the magical shamanic effect I like to use for my group use. I have about a thousand TLC plates of my tests, each with its own unique and different alkaloid mixture. This could keep graduate students busy for years elucidating the unique healing properties of these mixtures.
--- End quote ---

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16810

...so this particular cultivar of P. arundinacea certainly sounds promising as a potential 5-MeO-DMT source.

Some further information on Phalaris species and 5-MeO-DMT content to be found here:


--- Quote ---Phalaris spp.

Phalaris data below is incomplete. Alkaloid concentrations and proportions are highly variable from year to year and show dramatic seasonal fluctuations. Concentrations between plant parts and first growth versus regrowih are also very different. In many populations there may be marked differences in both the amounts present and in actual alkaloid profile from one plant to the next. (i.e. plants in the same population and arising from the same seeds may show completely different chemistry, not simply differing concentrations.) See the amazing Festi & Samorini pieces listed in the Phalaris spp. page about cultivation for a review and overview of what is known so far.

Phalaris aquatica

- A major alkaloid in all samples they examined. (Culvenor et al. 1964)
- 5-MeO-DMT was not present in all clones examined (4 out of 12) Frahn & Illman 1973
- 5-MeO-DMT in leaf. 0.01-0.28% in material from California. (Festi & Samorini 1994a cited Welch 1971 ref Trout's Notes)
- var. AQ-1 (Italy) Weak occurrence reported (HPLC). (Festi & Samorini 1994b ref Trout's Notes)
- as Phalaris tuberosa - Strong in leaf. 2 Nov. and 17 Sept. 1995. Dec 1995. Assay. tlc by J. Appleseed 1995 (ref Trout's Notes)
- var Killer Phalaris (At one point this was synonymous with cv. Uneta, but has been in uncontrolled propagation for long enough this is no longer certain.) 5-MeO-DMT predominated in 25 June, 17 Sept., 2 Nov. 1995 samples. (DMT was predominate alkaloid in Fall 1994 by TLC) (ref Trout's Notes)
- Clone #R5 "large" amount of DMT (5-MeO? possible mistake in Trout's Notes) co-occurring with twice amount of 2-MTHBC (Clone, designated 405-9, originating with U.S. Regional Pasture Research Laboratory, University Park, Pennsylvania)
- Clone #R37 ·'trace" amount of 5-MeO-DMT co-occurring with " intermediate" amounts of hordenine and "large" amounts of 6-methoxy-2,9-dimethyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline. (From highly diverse source population used in plant breeding and genetic studies at the University of Minnesota. Department of Agronomy and Plant Generics".)
- Clone #R51 ·'large" amount of 5-MeO-DMT as sole observed al.kaloid. [Same source as R37)
- Clone #R96 " large" amount of 5-MeO-DMT co-occurring with "trace" amounts of hordenine and "trace" amounts of 6-methoxy-2,9-dimethyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline. (Same source as R37) (Gander et al. 1976. ref Trout's Notes)
- cv. Australian Commercial (CPI 119305) A major alkaloid in 7 day old seedlings. 150 nmol / 100 seedlings. (Mulvena & Slaytor 1983 ref Trout's Notes); In seedlings. (Mack et al. 1988); Mature 0.05% dry wt.(Baxter & Slaytor 1972)
- cv. Sirocco 51 nmol / 100 seedlings. (Mulvena & Slaytor 1983 ref Trout's Notes); Major base. (Frahn & O'Keefe 1971); 5-MeO-DMT in leaf (Ott 1994 cited Culvenor et al 1964; Baxter & Slaytor 1972; frahn & Illman 1973 ; Moore et al 1967; Mulvena & Slaytor 1982; Oram & Williams 1967 ref Trout's Notes)

Phalaris arundinacea

- 5-MeO-DMT in leaf and whole plant Barnes et al 1971; Culvenor et al 1964; Gander et al. 1976; Majak & Bose 1977; Majak et a!. 1978; Marten et al. 1973

Williams et al. 197 1. Many others.

- 0.0002-0.0067% 5-MeO-DMT in material from British Columbia. (Majak & Bose 1977)
- 0-0.02% in material from Minnesota. NRG741 was strongest of those tested & NRG721 the weakest. (Majak eta/. 1978)

Festi & Samorini 1994a

- TLC by Johnny Appleseed
- P.I. 172442 Turkey (cv. Turkey Red)0.0025% to 0.045% total alkaloid by wet weight. 5-MeO is predominate alkaloid. (J.Appleseed (undated manuscript); "Ayahuasca analog plants of the temperate zone." Tlc by Johnny Appleseed: fall 1994, 25 June, 17 Sept, 2 Nov. 1995. (ref Trout's Notes)
- cv Ottawa Synthetic : 5-MeO-DMT present, Amounts not given. Detected by TLC (Woods & Clark 1971 ref Trout's Notes)

Phalaris brachystachys

- PI 202676, PI 231044: 5-MeO-DMT reported, Appleseed tlc evaluation of field trials using USDA seeds. (ref Trout's Notes)

Phalaris canariensis

- PI 167261, and also 284185 (lower levels) 5-MeO-DMT reported, Appleseed tlc evaluation of field trials using USDA seeds. (ref Trout's Notes)
- Traces reported (HPLC). Festi & Samorini 1994b

Phalaris stenoptera (= P tuberosa var. stenoptera)

- Variable amounts. Festi & Samorini 1994b cited Rendig et al 1970 as finding 135-264 J.Lg/ml of expressed juice. (ref Trout's Notes)

--- End quote ---

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/5-MeO-DMT#Phalaris_spp.

Some more relevant information:


--- Quote ---Phalaris brachystachys

An extremely strong occurrence of DMT was reported, using HPLC, in material from Portugal. DMT was the sole alkaloid. Festi & Samorini 1994b.

Strongly positive human bioassays have been reported using clones originating from both Algeria and Greece. DeKorne 1997.

30 grams of fresh foliage was reported to be too much by EH, MA (1997 Entheogen Review page 15).

Appleseed's assays detected 5-MeO-DMT in several strains obtained from the USDA GRIN; including P.I. 202676 & P.I. 231044 Greece. (The latter was found to be a spreading form with good biomass production).


Phalaris canariensis may be another species in dire need of more research, apparently being a generous seed producing cultivar of P. brachystachys.


Phalaris canariensis

Individuals containing a uniform distribution of DMT among their offspring have been identified and selected for cultivation [from PI#415822].

A similar undertaking was performed for a high 5-MeO-DMT producing strain [from PI#167261].

Both should become commercially available within the near future. Both tested solidly and appear as good or better than the P. brachystachys strains that were also tested. Both showed a clean profile with only one alkaloid present.

November 1999 update: While this was true of the USDA seed grown material and held true early in the field trials, after being grown out for several successive seed crops, both of the strains in question began to also show the presence of other alkaloids. Further seed production efforts were placed on hold until an understanding of this can be reached.
--- End quote ---
From:

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec3_part2_phalaris_strains.shtml

Further research/gardening is warranted here I think! :)

HumbleVoyager:
Oh yeah this is very promising indeed!!

Great compilation of info here Bancopuma.

I spoke with Dennis McKenna about this possibility and he also seemed to think Phalaris grass would perhaps be the best option. The next question would be a matter of testing, which it seems ForeverChanging could help with doing a formal assessment of some of these grasses. Also I think it would be worth seeing what other compounds are present in the grass and if any produce negative side effects (gramine for example).

nottwo:
I did an extraction of Phalaris arundinacea about two years ago with very mixed results. I'd heard a lot of varying advice about best times to harvest it, such as early in the morning, or which part of the grass contains most tryptamines. I found an area covering many acres of public land and picked about 2 kg in the afternoon. I didn't have the chance to do an extraction until 2 weeks later on the material. I ended up with a relatively small amount of brownish goo, despite my best attempts to get crystals. I vaped a quantity, probably 15-20 mg, and thought at first that it had had no or very little effect. However about 15 minutes (not seconds!) later, some sort of tryptamine effect came on with open eye fractals and weird body sense. The main effects faded after about 10 minutes and took about another 40 minutes to completely disappear. My guess would be some sort of tryptamine but not 5-meo or nn-dmt.

HumbleVoyager:
Interesting about your extraction of Phalaris arundinacea! And very interesting effects. I wonder why the effects took so long to come on! Usually when vaped, the onset is much quicker for molecules of this nature.

With a concentration of 0.0025% to 0.045% wet weight, it seems that 2kg would at most yield 90mg. The fact that it was difficult to get crystals speaks to the potential problem we would have of isolating the target compound. That would perhaps be one of the biggest challenges in the plant extraction world of 5-MeO-DMT.

nottwo:
I boiled the grass with successive quantities of weak citric acid solution but with 2 kg of starting material that means you end up with a large amount of liquid. The main problem was getting rid of any solid in the liquid. I filtered several times then reduced the quantity of liquid over a low heat but this seemed to produce a lot more solid. I used a mixture of letting it settle, pour off the liquid, filter, reduce to half then repeat - several times. After basification, the liquid went from light browny green to darker brown. Lots of the brown came across when adding the NP solvent and attempts to purify it seemed to result in losing everything.

If anyone wanted to try this on a more scientific basis, I'd recommend the use of a buchner filter, which I don't have.

I have no explanation for the delay in the effects. Normally a vaped substance will either cross the blood brain barrier almost immediately or it won't cross at all.

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