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NN-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT: Their Similarities and Differences.

Started by Rising Spirit, July 01, 2017, 09:38:12 PM

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Rising Spirit

High there guys & gals,

I wanted to ask you all to please describe something of the profound experiences born of imbibing the sacred "God Molecule", 5-MeO-DMT, and how it's tremendous effect has taken the willing participant way beyond what one had previously believed was possible.  What can one say about the comparisons and contrasts between 5-MeO-DMT and NN-DMT?  I understand that the visuals and sonics are each most unique to both molecules, on their own terms and have transmitted shifts in conscious-awareness which, in their own right are good medicine (so to speak).

There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.


—surrender completes us—

Rising Spirit

Thanks for the link, free-range!

I find it fascinating that James attributes the states of mind/intent/focus gifted by the two DMTs to chakra activation, as this has been my experience with psychedelics, since 1977.  Perhaps the various molecules target different levels of ascension, lifting the attention to that point of conscious-awareness, whereby subject and object dissolve within the field of indivisible being?  Now, a seasoned Kundalini Yoga or Kriya Yoga practitioner, can ride the Rainbow serpent higher and higher...   beyond the limits of self, culminating in the full bloom of the Sahasrara or 7th chakra.  This has been my experience with LSD, mescaline, psilocybin and NN-DMT.  How wonderful that 5-MeO-DMT propels the psychonaut to this level instantly!!! 

My first post over at The Nexus:
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.


Hey Rising Spirit,

Some interesting comparisons are made in this thread, not just in the opening post but further down comparing the two, I think it should be of interest.

If there is indeed something to chakras, I would definitely take the view that 5-MeO is a crown chakra medicine! My own breakthrough Bufo/5-MeO experiences very closely resemble Gopi Krishna's description of his kundalini awakening experience (but without the negative long term after effects he experienced).

There is a little overlap between 5-MeO-DMT and N,N-DMT but they are far more different than similar in experiential qualities, in my experience. A major difference is 5-MeO-DMT, at breakthrough dosage, reliably and consistently produces a non-dual experience, where there is no longer any gulf between observer and what is being observed. This state can occur through N,N-DMT but is much less common, whereas with a release dose of 5-MeO-DMT, it is pretty much a given. Rather than being a witness to what is unfolding, you are a part of the unfolding. 5-MeO much more reliably induces experiences of white light, oneness, unity and cosmic consciousness, and an experience that seems to much more resemble a near death experience in a content than a classical psychedelic experience (I view it as an atypical psychedelic). I find it very direct and consistent. N,N-DMT is much more visionary in quality and variable in content for me, often with an alien feel to it, whereas 5-MeO-DMT feels more universally cosmic. For myself, 5-MeO-DMT I find much more intoxicating, blissful and ecstatic than N,N-DMT which for me always feels clear, and serious in tone. My own subjective take is that while other psychedelics certainly produce expanded states, they also impart their own character or flavour onto the experience...5-MeO-DMT is in some way like being intoxicated on pure, unfiltered consciousness or awareness. 5-MeO-DMT is also a step above N,N-DMT in terms of raw power. 5-MeO-DMT reliably induces the classical mystical experiences described previously that Rick Strassman was expecting N,N-DMT to induce before he embarked on his research study with the latter.

Rising Spirit

Thank you for the link, Bancopuma!

I know in my very bones that this molecule is the one that I have been searching for.  Everything elsese has led up to this stage in the game of awakening.  I am both excited and eager but also patient.  Things happen when they must.   But when that fine moment arrives...  SHAZAM!!!  8)
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.



I'd like to contribute some experience reports in the future. However I would like to say that, personally, my most profound experience with this kind of medicine has been with regular n,n. The particular experience involved the oral ingestion of a moderately high dose of n,n dmt during an ayahuasca session, and as far as I have been able to tell, the ordeal reached a much higher peak than what most people typically expect. It involved complete dissolution of my ego, my identity and sense of self, something people say is hard to achieve with n,n dmt. I would definitely label it as a non-dual experience. "I" went 'all the way', and while I have had breakthrough experiences with 5-meo, so far it has not come anywhere close to that particular experience in which I became just a lick of flame in the roaring, primordial fires from whence all things come! In a way that cant even really be compared to the 5-meo experience because the two medicines almost like apples and oranges... Although I would definitely agree that 5-meo is way more potent, and more effective in propelling the user to such exalted states of consciousness. I have not experienced any kind of entity or extra dimensional beings with 5-meo. Although the sense of unity with spirit or God as Martin Ball might put it is very profound, it has not had the same kind of lasting effects that nn dmt has left me with after being analyzed by some giant alien machine and healed with a beam of golden light that left me feeling love and euphoria for days (changa).

Rising Spirit

Thanx for your superb reply, n4om1.

In my small experience with psychedelics, now spanning 40 years within this time-space-continuum, there are various molecular avenues and portals into wholly spiritual interphases within the field of absolute nonduality (the blinding light of infinity). 

The most self shattering molecules erase the boundary lines betwixt oneself and everything outside of oneself.  That state of being where there exists no inside or outside, self or other...  our personal limitations being dissolved by the effulgence of an ineffible transcendence of the Absolute, that state which eclipses within the truest self, the universal Atman or Oversoul. 

And this symbiosis links to the Godself, in epicenter of Divine, most Grid-like expanse and immense vibrational field, which is shimmering as the sheerest pulse of undifferentiated Oneness.  Or perhaps, it may be more correct to say, wholly fused into the exploding emptiness of Zero...  the insubstantial force of the eternal Tao?   
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.


Rising Spirit.... I think that was the most eloquent expression of whats going on with these substances that I've ever heard! Absolutely brilliant articulation there. Big grin!!!


Aho -beautiful analysis Rising Spirit,

When we think of a classic psychedelic experience like DMT. LSD or Psilocybin there is often a disruption, dilation or distortion of normal boundaries like self/other, subject/object, inner/outer, mind/matter, then/now, etc...because everything is inherently connected and these categories are ultimately illusory.
While the classical psychedelics dissolves the edges between opposites allowing for the underlying field of connectivity to be witnessed, 5-MeO allows a direct line to the source from which the awareness, emergence and experience of these dualities flows.

However, as our minds are shaped by the relationship between things, these dualities are not to be seen as inherently bad, merely the way our shared reality is...just as our human understandings, thinking and behaviour, social group connections and prevailing cultural beliefs are predicated on our location in time and space - they are all made from me/we/I perspectives. The lessons to be gleaned from psychedelics come not just from shifting these perspectives, but from loosening the fixity that they have on us in everyday life and so I feel that what we are seeking in this 'waking life' is to move our awareness and thus our realise that we are not our thoughts and that thoughts are merely tools of the mind that we can use to shape our reality. We can do this by cultivating the 'essential-self'- the you that is beyond perspectives, patterns and place...the inner essence that is reminiscent of a child, fearless and free before conditioned responses and reactions moulded us to be a certain way in the world, certain modalities of living.

LSD, Psilocybin, DMT are all fantastic molecules for deeply exploring this power because they give us the time to engage with who and how we are, what we can be and want to be, show us different versions of ourselves in past, present and future, to heal and liberate ourselves from the patterned behaviour that we inherited from the environment we grew up in. The stimulation of the brains own neuro-plasticity is the key here, (kind of like hacking the placebo effect)  allowing it to rewire itself in such a way that serves the essential self by allowing the genesis of new vitality, empathy, curiosity, creativity, intuition, productivity and moving into a new way of being :)

viva La Medicina

Rising Spirit

By gosh, I had all but forgotten about this thread, until someone posted it on a Toad facebook page.  It's very interesting for me to read now, almost two years later.  13 months after this older post, I had my inaugural voyage with 5-MeO-DMT.  Rarely at a loss for words...  I found myself at an immense cross roads, metaphysically speaking.  I cannot begin to grok the very highest, peak moments, as I was 100% gone.  It's almost like embracing oblivion of the ego constructs, and then being reborn under new laws of witnessing with impartiality and a certain detached transcendence.  By a new definition in one's experiential modality, attention shifts from looking outside from the inside, to looking inside from the outside.  They endlessly fuse a one expression.  I have revisited N,N-DMT twice since then and answered many of my own questions.  They are quite different molecules but the sudden load and immediate expansion are the same with both DMTs.  My first 5-MeO trip report:

I still can't quite wrap my head around the immensity of the experience, nor the three that followed it, as so much of the interphase occurs in that empty fullness which exists beyond the confines of our conditioning within the realm of duality at large.  How does one describe a single drop discovering remembrance of always having been the boundaryless ocean?  When the isolated particle recalls being the entirety of the whole universal bang, the fullest bloom of unbound love...  no words can truly suffice.

Oneself becomes small very quickly.  Awareness becomes intensely primordial.  Picture an egg floating in the vast sea of formless source energy.  This sacrament almost instantly dissolves the shell, outer membrane and absorbs the egg whites and yoke into an undifferentiated expanse of pure conscious-awareness.  As the outer shell rapidly disappears, the barrier betwixt the inner and outer loses it's finite distinction.  Observation is still possible to the interior yoke, through its now alternated state of experiential being, yet, the lines are vanishing quickly and subjectivity become a less and less defined.  As the energy continues to vibrate into higher and higher frequencies of being, maintaining any degree of separation, incrementally becomes impossible. 

As the membrane dissipates, all sense of interior and exterior is washed away...  leaving the egg whites to expand further and further into the furthest reaches of cosmic mind, until they ARE the essence of said, "cosmic mind".  The yoke finds itself in a particularly compromised condition and that's an understatement!!!  While babies are born in tune with the universal state, the seedling of the Infinite tree of life, decades of conditioning gradually fix an identity to the paradigm of entering into living within the dichotomy of the time-space-continuum.  5-MeO reliably erases such silly human training in just a few minutes.  The infant within each of us is then left naked and helpless, much like our hypothetical yoke floating within the void of the Absolute.

If you good people will bear with this analogy, what follows is familiar to each soul as it is re-absorbed into the living source if all being, the indivisible, ineffible Godhead (what I affectionately term, the Omniself).  The yoke is then wholly dissolved by the oscillating sonic pulsations emanating from the very epicenter of Divine Being and in so doing, enters into seamless union with The Clear Light of The Void.  Moments before self annihilation, nano-seconds prior to total stillness of self referencing, there is a tremendous shift in attention.  As the immersion reaches full zenith, an understanding of the nature of the blinding whiteness blooms exponentially. 

The "yoke" has now returned to it's mother and more so, gained a profound remembrance of always having been it's own mother...  purest source consciousness.  Not just aware of emerging out of the hub of pure beingness, rather, having direct experience of always having been centered within said hub.  Deeply, deeply, deeply within this dawning of complete spiritual unity...  arises the urgent need to surrender wholly to the reality which transcends all realities.  In such a fusion between the soul bird and the eternal sky, there is no iota of differentiation.  No thought, no feeling, no self, no other...   no mind.  Not even Buddha mind or Christ consciousness remains intact witness to the inversion of self and nonself.  Within a boundary-less stillness, an unstruck note rings out forevermore.  There are no ears to hear it's exquisite music nor any hearts present to taste of it's unborn, undying love.  It simply is as it is.  Sat Chit Ananda.  AUM...   _/|\_ _/|\_

The ego or self is not only gone now, it surrenders to the truth that it never really existed.  The One does not become the many.  The One is unbroken perfection itself humming along within the myriad dreamscape of the many.  The eternal Tao is always free and undifferentiated, existing in an undefined unity, epicentrically and for ever present AS the indefinable resplendence of Sunyata, the supreme magnificence of The Unified Field in it's own web like, invisible flowering state.  Granted, this unformed force is the quintessential source and is itself, always interconnected with all that has been, all that is and all that could ever possibly become, yet, somewhere within the zero point, somehow, we each choose to become existent.  To dream and to live to awaken, over and over again.

There is a peak moment within every psychedelic experience and with this particular sacrement, the price for admission is death.  Not just a dying to the illusion of separation and individualized perception, but a genuine death of the relativity of oneself.  This is wherein the full throttle whiteout experience explodes the yoke into countless points of effulgence. Atman is Brahman.

Nothing can feasibly be said about such an ascension of conscious-awareness, as no one is left to have reference or even witness the blinding light of this ascension.  From this side of the looking glass, I believe that the soul bird has now touched the ecstasy of the God plane and without any sliver of dualism, no words can have any meaning.  We may reflect this great illumination, we may echo it's booming power within our mind's heart...  but projection of any metaphysical conceptualization about this kind of special immersion, is wholly meaningless.

From the view gleaned from looking out beyond the confines of my own tiny little dream bubble of self-conscious experiences, is one that has no specific horizon line.  I have come to realize that we are capable of entering into higher spheres of cognition, those rays of energy that shine without thought or subjective quantification. 

To attempt to describe these hyper-real flashes of insight and epiphany...  is like trying to toss a marble or a pebble at a far away star.  The futility of actually hitting the solar body is the great irony of attempting to explain rationally, any mystical experience.  Within the sacred hoop of this potent trip into what a young friend of mine innocently calls, "The white room", the difficulty becomes an impossibility.  Returning from this vastly immense, fulcrum of loving light, ignites the journey of a lifetime, itself an eternity in the making.  Thank you for being here now, my cherished 5-Hive family members.  I love and respect you all and I always shall.  <3 <3
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.