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Messages - d.a.t.s.

Greetings! I haven't posted in follow up to earlier messages, but an admin reached out by email and asked me to return and explore discussion further.

It was my intent after experimenting with Bufo to compare the 5-MEO experience to the other non-dual experiences I described in my last post. However, my Bufo experience fell short of a 'breakthrough.' I had difficulty getting a sufficient dose by vaporizing through a meth pipe. In fairness to my host, he offered to load up again, but something pretty cool happened...I realized that making the comparison wasn't all that important and I just enjoyed listening to my host play his flute and the experience of agape in our discussion.

I would still like to try 5-MEO some day. But perhaps when opportunity permits using synthetic 5-MEO. Vaporizing Bufo out of a meth pipe was much more challenging than inhaling nn,DMT out of a wax vape pen (which resulted in a one-hit 'surprise breakthrough' on my first experiment!).

I am also interested to hear from others who may have had non-dual experiences with both entheogens and revealed through non-entheogenic means. Some time ago, a spiritual teacher who I respect well for his lucidity, lack of BS, and simplicity implied that objective consciousness has varying depths/states of awareness. He made no further discussion of this matter, leaving it to the 'student' to discover for oneself. He was always very cautious of not giving students engaged in the Work of self-observation (e.g., unraveling their existing beliefs, ideals, etc.) fodder for new beliefs. In essence, 'replacing old bricks in the wall of Self with new stones.'

Listening to Martin Ball comment on 5-MEO, he states with confidence that the 5-MEO experience is a state of Oneness which cannot be replicated through spiritual work. When I expressed this to a friend deeply experienced in spiritual work, he dismissed Ball and implied that generations of people have 'awakened' to non-dual realization through non-entheogenic means (not to mention spontaneous awakenings, such as Eckhart Tolle). I personally have experienced the truth of my friend's statement. But I don't dismiss Ball either. If there are indeed varying depths to the experience on non-dual perception, it seems there may be a difference in how that state of awareness is induced and I suspect it has to do somehow with two related things:

1) Active sensory perception...Sensory awareness is a tether to the 4-D (spacetime) reality of the physical body.

2) State of physical consciousness (e.g., waking state, dream state, entheogenic suppression of brain activity, etc.)

I am also curious about another matter too... Setting aside 'Great Moments of Non-Dual Realization', one the greatest benefits of spiritual work is the unraveling of the self and release of attachment (via disidentification) to beliefs, ideals, self-images, blame/guilt, and all that other stuff which tortures the psyche of conditioned man. I can't speak for the Buddhas and Jesuses of human history, but it seems most people who engage in serious spiritual work spend 99+% of their time in a subjective state of consciousness to some degree. By subjective states of awareness, I am also describing bliss, perception of unique connections, deep stillness/presence, and some other states of awareness which only seem to open through the active Work of meditation/disidentification, self-observation, etc.

For those who only engage in discovery through 5-MEO, how has the experience transformed your daily experience of life? I know most sense a deeper sense of freedom and inner security, but have you found yourself less bound by the chains of the self (e.g., fear/compelling desire, button-presses and consequent negative emotions, etc..)? Has universal love/primal empathy and inner peace awakened as active forces of daily life experience?

I am very curious to hear about this. I have a few hypotheses about how how spiritual work and entheogens may tie together for a more leveraged transformative process. But it's only ideas at this stage.
I am brand new to 5-MEO and scheduled my first session next week. I write this post to share two previous experiences of non-dual perception. I read the posting guidelines for this subforum and I'm not sure if this is the correct place this post (the following experiences had no relation to 5-MEO). If not, please move to the appropriate subforum.


I was initially introduced to spiritual work in the 1990's. After experimenting with several approaches, I discovered the Fourth Way (a school of teaching originally introduced by G.I. Gurdjieff) emphasizing self-observation and a form of 'active meditation' referred to as self-remembering. The 'active meditation' (self-remembering) I describe is a practice of dis-identification from thoughts, negative emotions, subjective opinions, ideals, and beliefs as they arise into awareness during active participation in daily life. Some, such as Osho, compare it to Vipassana meditation.

I was actively engaged in the Work for a few years and discovered many remarkable things (one of which is described below) before gradually falling back into old patterns of conditioned behavior. In December 2017, I awoke to the realization of where I was and what I had been sacrificing and resumed a renewed purpose of life...To be awake again and living in the daily magic of love and freedom from judgement!


After being engaged in the Work for some time and experiencing progressively deeper levels of love and interconnectedness, something remarkable happened while I was working in a restaurant. I don't remember how/when it unfolded and memory can't truly replicate the experience. All that I can describe are powerful, yet vague impressions. "I" disappeared and was "replaced" by a sense of omnipresent love and complete unity with all things. As this was happening, the body was animated and waiting on tables, taking orders, and delivering food but with full conscious awareness that ALL IS GOD! There was also a powerful intuition/knowing that "this Greater Reality" was always and has always been present. There was an indescribable and powerful sense of primal déjà vu (deep familiarity/remembering). 

As far as sensory phenomenon, I remember everything visually cast in a glowing halo yet there was absolutely no sense of disorientation or distraction. I also remember hearing every conversation in the room simultaneously and understanding all of them. Although I was fully aware of the sensory experience, the sense of love/identity seemed timeless and boundless—infinitely expanded beyond the confines of the 3-dimensional space of the surrounding environment.

It was a front row seat to the Greatest Show on Earth!


I had been re-engaged in the Work for about nine months when an unusual dream occurred while traveling. It was after my morning wake-up call and when I went back to sleep for a couple of minutes.

It started as an ordinary dream...I was in my company office with many of our normal office staff. It was a different office environment, but activity was normal and there was nothing unusual.

My boss and business partner was pressuring our IT manager for explanation about delay on a project when something interesting happened—Everything froze in place as if someone stopped a film.

The moment this happened, awareness began to expand and 'drift' outward from the 'dream body/POV identity' fluidly throughout this frozen scene. This non-corporeal and egoless sense of 'I' was incredibly familiar. As it happened, there was a knowledge that a body was asleep, a dream was suspended in animation, and a powerful intuition that there was nothing to fear and only trust/truth/remembrance in what was happening. What was a frozen scene of action in a dream became a black void as non-corporeal awareness expanded. Although the void was all I perceived, there was a feeling/sense of infinite expansion. It felt as if all remembered identity and existence became non-existent. Unlike recent experiences of nn,DMT-induced reality, it wasn't a different perception of spatial (e.g., 2D, 1D) reality, but rather pure void (No-Thing).

At some point I sensed a physical body and awoke. Identity (and this 4-D world of perception) was back.

This was a long post. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to share some thoughts about unique similarities and noteworthy differences between entheogen-induced and non-entheogen induced spiritual discoveries.

Wishing you peace, love, and wondrous discovery!

Introductions/Newbies / Greetings!
March 18, 2019, 05:56:13 AM
 Thanks for hosting this forum and providing a place for exchange regarding this intriguing compound.

Although I have been engaged in spiritual work for some time and have experience with nn,DMT, I am new to 5-MEO and have my first session scheduled next week while traveling out of country on business. In preparation, I've read the Conclave recommendations and some of Martin Ball's writings regarding 5-MEO. However, considering the business context of my trip next week, I have some specific questions that I hope the community here can assist. I also have a few experiences to share regarding non-dual perception without the use of entheogens which underlie my curiosity and intention for trying this chemical. I'll reserve those matters for other posts.

Wishing you peace, love, and wondrous discovery!