5 Hive - 5-MeO-DMT Forum

Science and Spirituality => Spirituality => Topic started by: Rising Spirit on December 06, 2017, 09:32:35 PM

Title: Speaking of that which cannot be spoken of, objectified or quantified.
Post by: Rising Spirit on December 06, 2017, 09:32:35 PM
Good evening All.

I had noticed that the spiritual forum here was a long silent platform, some weeks ago now, and just wanted to playfully bring light to a new topic.  The most recent thread was so deep, it's hardly a surprise for the thoughtful pause.   _/|\_

I have still yet to imbibe of the "God Molecule".  I almost feel impatient...  but I have learned the wisdom of patience.  I am essentially an optimistic mystic.  This dream of life has taught me that the right medicine arrives at the perfect time.  Not sooner or later than what is ordained by one's own unique destiny. So pardon my inspired thoughts here in, for my heart's intention is born of a deep humility, one blessed by this universal harmony we call life and living it to the fullest.   8)

Sure, the nondual state cannot be subjectively interpreted and reinterpreted via reasoning, deduction or dualistic quantification...  but from this side of the looking glass, there is much of great value to share with one another.  The infinite field transcends description or limitation to relative phenomena, as such a ineffible state of being hasn't any boundary or the minutest iota of division nor differentiation. Thus, no lofty words nor any conceptual paradigmn fully encapsulates what forevermore evades our most sincere contemplation and our deepest seeking/witnessing.

But there is a very, very fine line between not speaking about...  or enthusiastically speaking about, what cannot truly be compressed into any fractured, dichotimous paradigmn.  Unity dissolves subjectivity.  Still, just prior to and immediately post interphase with the nondual field of existential being and immediately post said interphase, there is much to learn and process into one's own soul quintessence.  The inside and the outside are revealed to be the same energy & inertia.  The eternal balance.  The universal harmony.    ;)

That being said, does anyone care to relate their own journeys into the infinitum of the immeasurable, clear light of the Void?  Please do, good people, brave travelers.  Much love and respect, my most honored fellows.
Title: Re: Speaking of that which cannot be spoken of, objectified or quantified.
Post by: Rising Spirit on December 20, 2017, 10:47:53 AM
Happy Winter Solstice, Gang!

I just wanted to touch bases with this thread, as no one has offered any harmonies or countermelodies.  And I do appreciate and honor the empty silence, which speaks volumes about the irony of attempting to contain the uncontainable with human linguistics. 

That being said, just prior to full interphase and immediately following any immersion into the nondual state, encountered by psychonauts, mystics or near-death experiences...  potent impressions are cognizable. 

As the subjective witness dissolves within the vortexial fulcrum of the indivisible field, itself transcendent of any subjectification, ultimately nothing can be spoken of.  Still, what remembrances that linger are priceless.  So, please elucidate, good people.  And bless us all throughout this Holiday season. 
Title: Re: Speaking of that which cannot be spoken of, objectified or quantified.
Post by: Flux on January 09, 2018, 06:49:42 AM
Thank you Rising Spirit for sharing your thoughts and ideas on this,

As a key aspect of the classic mystical state and indeed one of 9 quantifiable factors of according to Walter Pahnke's (1963;1969)Mystical Experience; being; "unity, transcendence of time and space, deeply felt positive mood, sense of sacredness, noetic quality, paradoxicality, alleged ineffability, transiency, and persisting positive changes in attitudes and behaviours". The qualifier of 'alleged' though strikes me as odd...are they suggesting that people are just not trying hard enough ? or are feigning ineffability to avoid the complexity and demands of the task itself? Why does 'alleged' sit before this particular quality and none of the other 9 factors ?

The 'pre' and 'post' liminal stages of the 5-MeO experience are indeed a critical phase of the journey and perhaps a somewhat overlooked one in its value and significance. I like Victor Turner's (1967) description of the three phases of ritual experience: the pre-stage being 'separation' and the 3rd 're-assimilation' of the self into its subject/object dichotomy with this ineffable liminality lying betwixt the two. Equally pertinent and influential on this model was Van Gennep's (1906) observation of liminal states during Rites of Passage, as Toad ceremony participants are often described as 'initiates' before their introduction tot his medicine
Also, as much as 'inside and outside' boundaries of mind and matter are illusory (albeit persistent), this is where human meaning is made, where we transform what we have seen and felt and perceive as having value... and attempt to translate it into an verbal, visual, auditory or kinetic articulation, rendering the mystical 'real', 'tangible' and 'verifiable'....and this powerful creative impulse is the eternal engine that has driven human culture forward in its relatively short history. I often feel that the creative impulse is in essence spirit expressing itself through us and (in most cases), with a little technical training and practice we are able to enter a flow state in which the normal blockages of conditioned thought and behaviour are suspended in favour of something more true to our authentic, inner being... and we hope that as a result others may gain pleasure in these articulations as they recognise the core and universal truth in our expressions.

Ineffability is merely a challenge for us to find common language for, and maps of the mystical experience. I also find it an interesting phenomenon that the closer we get to the pure non-dual, Samadhi, Brahman Godhead state, the simpler and more collectively common the language becomes; god, love, all, one, etc. perhaps this is just the way human language is coded but it points to the universally translatable feeling of this state, not by way of its ineffability (seemingly a 'side-effect' of the experience itself) but by the merit of the grace and gnosis felt and gleaned there.
One attempt of mine to articulate the ineffability of 5-MeO-DMT is my poem here: https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php/topic,50358.msg53910.html#msg53910 (https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php/topic,50358.msg53910.html#msg53910)

Also some interesting articles around this https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281637495_The_Language_of_Ineffability_Linguistic_Analysis_of_Mystical_Experiences (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281637495_The_Language_of_Ineffability_Linguistic_Analysis_of_Mystical_Experiences)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151015141513.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151015141513.htm)
http://psypressuk.com/2015/01/16/the-ritual-use-of-ayahuasca-the-healing-effects-of-symbolic-and-mythological-participation/ (http://psypressuk.com/2015/01/16/the-ritual-use-of-ayahuasca-the-healing-effects-of-symbolic-and-mythological-participation/)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227665571_Ayahuasca_and_Spiritual_Crisis_Liminality_as_Space_for_Personal_Growth (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227665571_Ayahuasca_and_Spiritual_Crisis_Liminality_as_Space_for_Personal_Growth)

kindest regards good sir :)