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Hi Rising,

I don't think they are intentionally being fraudulent. I think they, more or less, believe their misguided and misinformed views though I also think this entails a lot of avoidance and denial on their part. I'm somewhat familiar with the principals in the "church" and want to discuss this with them in a way that is considerate of where they are at while also being honest, clear and accurate. Of course, as in any dialog, it takes a willingness on both parts to engage and see ones blind spots and how strongly held positions may be in error.  This may not be possible with them.

I've been Facebook friends with Jenna first, and shortly afterwards, with Greg Lake, having met from one or more of the 5-MeO pages.  Good folks.  And I can vouch for the quality of their vision and dedication to spiritual awakening.  So naming the Church after the molecule, it seemed pretty clear that the sacrament was indeed stated to be 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT, AKA Psilomethoxin. That said, it was always implied and even directly stated the sacrement was essentially, an orally activate form of 5-MeO-DMT, or at least a hybrid molecule which had supplanted the psilocybin and psilocin contained within the cubensis mushroom hosts, leaving no trace of them.  And there's no need for a MAOI to allow for digestion and psychedelic activity.  Providing a slower onset and a longer lasting journey.


I had always believed that they had a team of qualified chemists doing the work and that isolating the highly promoted Psilomethoxin molecule had been likewise, completely conclusive.  I have seen their demo 3-D molecular model and assumed there was definitive science involved.   It's rather disappointing to hear that blind faith is a part of the Church's modus operandi.  Could this point to the possibility of a 5-like placebo effect fueled by psilocybin/psilocin?  I wish Martin Ball would comment about this issue of growing concern.  His personal experiences would potentially shed some much needed light herein.  Be well and stay high but do maintain critical thinking, everyone.   


Bellow are 2-D models of the molecules 5-MeO-DMT and 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT  [redacted to save space]

Naturally, I've gone through the gamut of awkward feelings since I posted this thread.  I've shifted my stance from enthusiastic, to confused, to embarrassed and rather dumfounded...  to downright disappointed.  Its' mind numbing that nearly 2,000 Church of Psilomethoxin members have possibly been microdosing  a fraudulent or at least a theoretical, hypothetical sacrament?  Frankly, I am completely flabbergasted and quite mystified by this whole phenomenon.

Color me naive but I expected that the Church had done their due diligence, that they had definitive results and really were providing an edible form of 5-MeO-DMT.  While I joined for the express purpose of purchasing the sacrament, which only members are permitted to do, I began to have my doubts, so I have only invested $55.55 for the annual membership fee.  These new reports only strengthen and confirm my growing doubts.  Mmm...  nope, I don't think I need to pursue this path at all.


The Church has officially frozen it's web site and it's FaceBook page and this doesn't look good at all.   🤔

Please don't promote this church until there is GCMS evidence. We have submitted a sample of the sacrament for testing and will post an update once we have an analytical report available.

Understood...  and I am quite eager to know the test results.  Thank you for your endeavors.   

Your written experience really resonates with me and shares many similarities to my own.

All one 

Many thanx.  The thing that has made itself crystal clear to me is the continued need to ground and integrate the experience that this sacrement overwhelms the pilgrim with.  If we retain even 1/100th of the nondual knowledge and cognition of the limitless Oneness....  it would be a treasure valued beyond one's wildest imagination.   

I've spoken to several reliable folks who confirm the presence of 5-MeO-DMT in these shrooms, most notably Martin Ball.  And yes, I do share your trepidation about churches and such organizations.  But so far these folks are loving and informative.   I have joined the church, as only members are able to purchase the mushrooms and will report back when I consume the sacrament.  Be well and shine brightly.       

Wow...  so simple.  So profound and so very beautiful.  Welcome home, friend.   

A wonderful new form of 5-MeO-DMT has allegedly been created and this ushers in an ingestible form of the sacrement, 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT.  It is produced by introducing 5-MeO to pscilocybe cubensis mushrooms, although the 5 is wholly predominant  What a beautiful synthesis!  I've yet to be anointed but it is very exciting news.  Some really good folks had created a church and support network for it's members.  I just wanted to  share the info with you all.  Their website is: [Redacted because we don't source on this forum]   

The things which have struck me in my repeated dissolutions into this unity are: the undeniable fact that that unity is truly real, and this dreamscape of duality is like a child's game of make believe - nothing is at stake and nothing can possibly be wrong. It is always clear from "there" that this is true and that it doesn't matter a whit if "I" remember that or believe it from here. And yet this little self persists in having preferences and even worries. So odd. Another thing which I never tire of is the blessed, glorious release from this cramped, tiny, trivial prison of self.

Truly, this dreamscape we each experience is quite the 3-dimensional optical illusion.  That said, we are called to voyage beyond the beyondest of beyonds.  Yes, the totality is the only genuine reality and our challenge is to attune our conscious-awareness to the Source and harmonize our vibrations with all life forms and all unseen, insubstantial phenomena, as well.

Some say it is like dying - I have not died so I don't know, but being free of this hovel (as nondual teacher Francis Lucille has called it) is the greatest relief it is possible to have. This small and fussy self is not a real thing, it's a pattern of constriction imposed on the eternal infinite One. And the experience of freedom from that pattern is quite difficult to remember clearly once re-imprisoned in the hovel. Another message which is abundantly and emphatically conveyed to this self each time it reconstitutes itself out of the shining nondual Source is that this experience is not "mine". What I take to be "me" when not in unity with Source, is made of That (being as there is in reality nothing other than That), but the me is not God.

Aham Brahmasmi.  I am Brahman/God.  In an Adavaitic sense, the small I is wholly illusory, as all is the Divine quintessence expanding and contracting in a magnificently mesmerizing, enigmatic rhythm.  I drowned as a boy and experienced an OBE and witnessed the great Light...  but it was superficial compared to a near whiteout 5-MeO journey.

The humility and reverence that overflows in me as I return from this communion with the All is profound, and I cringe when I sometimes see the experience mistranslated (IMO) as "I am God". All there is, is God, and yet this tiny self is not even a thing, and can no more contain or own the experience of the Divine Source of All, than a goldfish could contain the Pacific Ocean.5-MeO-DMT is the profoundest sacrament. I am in eternal gratitude.

Word.   

This is a very old post, being nearly 4 years old. Yet I feel it's absolutely crucial and still vitally relevant. Qdos to the poster, I hope we can get some answers.

So why is it that often awakening through psychedelics (and other means), can so often lead to a super inflated ego? It happens time and time again - people with incredible levels of insight & awakening develop the most obnoxious egos. Why is that?

This phenomenon is certainly not limited to just medicine people and entheogenic voyagers.  One can find innumerable cases of people experiencing:  mystical states, losing fixation with their egoic self-mesmerizm, merging into oneness, dissolving into the absolute Godhead, etc...  who return to recreate a sometimes monstrous, messianic complex.  Many, many, many "spiritual teachers" and gurus reveal contradictory behavior and conduct, despite their follower's incistance and fervent proclamation of their enlightenment.  It's simply the often contradictory nature of the human being.  How proposed sages warp into predators is most disturbing but hardly uncommon in any religious tradition or cult.  "Absolute power corrupts absolutely".  Bhagwan Rajneesh/ "Osho" being the most famous example in recent times.  Although, there have been many others, with many more yet to come.

That said, the process is amplified and exaggerated from the use of psychedelics, to such a degree that psychonautical pilgrims can transform from rock musicians, psychotherapists, actors or exotic dancers... Into neo-shamans, psychic healers, mystical mediums and well-paid life coaches.  In extreme cases, we encounter brand new Avataras of this present Age, ready to dish out sermons, doctrines and initiations.  I liken it to a sort of gravity for the mortal soul.  Dissolving all constructs of oneself whilst entranced, yet, coming down to earth, only to deal with duality in the afterglow.  When freed from the limitations of the isolated and individuated ego-self, the Spiritus blooms exponentially and how this mutates into a sort of spiritual narcissism, is quite disappointing and most perplexing, to say the very least. 

But hey, it's all a part of the dreamscape that people manifest.  The 5-MeO sacrement assuredly, potentiates this phenomenal shift with an immensity and an immediacy that has no other equal from the many powerful psychedelic compounds used as sacred medicines, despite the wealth of insight and spiritual healing that they mystically gjft.  Still, each medicine unites the isolated seeker to the universal state in their own unique ways.  Absorbing the explorer in the very fusion of the  enigmatic journey, devouring the illusion of separateness within the fulcrums of the cosmic exploration.  Miraculously, one's separate self resolidifies and rebuilds even more rigid conceptualizations such as, "I am here to teach humanity", "I am God" or "I am here to save the world".  Worse of all is, " I am the Master.  Come to me, I will enlighten you too."

Some greatly tempted folks even decide that their own abundance is of primary importance and their utmost concern.  This leads to charging outlandish fees for the anointment with the sacrement and/or integration coaching, after ceremony.  Duality sure has it's sneaky ways of contradicting the nondual epiphanies experienced by soul birds in their intrepid flight.  I suspect that even Zoroaster, Moses, Mahavira, Socrates, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Yeshua (Jesus Christ), Kabir and Sri Ramana Maharshi grappled with the ego-self's incessant fanfare?  The perpetual ole house of mirrors?  Life is but a dream, after all.  That said, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, everyone!   

Greetings all.  From my view of things, the most powerful teaching that Sacred Medicines gift is the temporary erasure of our conditioned ego-referencing.  Perhaps one might see this as the brief cessation of the isolated, finite self?  Certainly all beings experience this during deep sleep and unconsciousness.  Yet, the way that psychedelics dissolve the solidity of individuality is most remarkable, as it is a wholly conscious realignment.  Conscious of exactly what?  My humble belief is that the psychonaut becomes conscious of primordial conscious-awareness itself.  Call it:  Brahman, the Godhead, Christ or the Eternal Tao but it remains free of any and all rational quantification.  As such, it's the unique type of awareness that is wholly epicentrical, multi-dimensional and even multi- directional.  This doesn't allow for subjective perception, per se, for such a deep remembrance tosses all associations with ordinary perception into sheer oblivion. 


Some might emphatically argue that there is no different between deep sleep and Samadhi states...  from my windowsill, the distinct difference is that while asleep or dreaming, everything is obscured by an acute absence of all capacity of any conceivable degree of control over one's own awareness and it's direction.  By stark contrast, while in full-blown eclipsing of the peak moments of an entheogenic compound, a far greater sense of existential being is then programmed of perhaps even, imprinted?  Which is quite a topical catch word these days. Anyhooo... I do still say "imprinted" as the process requires no thought nor conceptualization and is dynamically interactive.  That comes later on, after touching down to earth as a kind of sacred remembrance.  Deeply rooted in the formlessness of the Source, mortal cognition abandons all boundaries and divisions betwixt this and that, yours and mine and such a state of being even shatters our cherished separation from God, through the duality of our collective, mortal religious worship. 


So the notion of oblivion arose in my thoughts today.  Of what special significance is the Medicine Journey oriented?  Through much reflection and intentional grounding, a message comes to the forefront and that is the message of Unity perceived within diversity.  Whether bathing within the bliss of spiritual Satori or suffering from the painful struggling which the isolated self believes is "reality"...  I have come to resonate with an understanding that the subtlest and truest nature of primary existence is essentially indivisible in nature and while it cannot possibly be known as an objectively concrete thing, it surely magikally creates, contains and re-absorbs all strata of this grand tapestry of life, recycling the energy and inertia back into an indivisible whole.  IME, 5-MeO-DMT reveals this shining truth with more power and limitless love, that any other known of molecule encountered by those who journey.   

I welcome any and all comments.  Wishing you each illumination on your intrepid journey home!  Namaste all.   

[aracid]

Hey there aracid, welcome to the 5 Hive.  We all know how difficult it is to encapsulate such an immeasurably powerful experience in mere words but can you share something of your inaugural voyage with the 5 sacrement?  During full-blown throttle whiteout mode, duality simply vanished and along with it...  so goes personal subjectivity.  Dissolving back into Source unification has a profoundly self-erasing effect but also, is a truly great teaching and healing experience.  The eternal vibration contained within everything, intensifies in frequency, while devouring any and all strata of conscious division or degree of separation from the totality.  That said, a veritable treasure trove of soul impressions and higher frequency sensations course thought the human vessel just prior to and post eclipsing states.  Please shed a little light on your spiritual journey and your direct encounter with the "God molecule".  Together we learn collectively about the universe all a round us and simultaneously, deeply within ourselves.  You'll find the experience report section the best place to share your introduction to this powerfully unique and most sacred medicine.  Namaskar. 

[I believe that people who lose consciousness at high doses do not have the strength to manage psychically or physically the experience.]

I share this experience to say that it is possible to go very far with 5 meo dmt.  I believe that it is an experience made for people who want to go to the de las of what we can propose currently, I believe that people who lose consciousness at high doses do not have the strength to manage psychically or physically the experience. There is a clash between the conscious and the unconscious that takes place, even if I prepared myself mentally to die for a long time, living it was still an ordeal, you have to know that I already lived a near death experience in my childhood and that it is for this reason that I wanted to consume 5 meo dmt to understand what I lived in the past.

I do agree to an extent but I honestly do feel that no mortal person is strong enough to keep their own personal existential paradigmn wholly intact through such an encounter with the sheer oblivion unleashed by 5-MeO-DMT.  That said, just prior to the whiteout interphase and post eclipsing, lifetimes of understanding can flood into one's being.  At the appex, subjectivity is impossible, as entering the undifferentiated field strips us of our ordinary human compass, for a seemingly brief spell.  Decades of meditation, concentration, contemplation, quantum theorizing, philosophising, breathwork and/or sensory deprivation, do greatly aid the voyager to a highly tangible degree but NOTHING can quite prepare us for this immense self-erasure (ego death). 

That said, those who have learned to surrender to the insubstantial force which our entire universe is created by, sustained by and eventually will be destroyed by or rather, reabsorbed by said force...  do indeed have a peculiar receptivity to containing the details and impressions that occur during journeys with this most sacred of medicines.  As you have clearly experienced, meeting God directly is more than a subject/object interplay.  The fusion literally devours our subjectivity.  The nondual eclipsing is so amazing I am at a loss with words to describe.  Besides, our limited human dialect can only effectively convey so much, eh?   

To live the imminent death in this way is really an incredible experience, the time was at the same time all and nothing, it is difficult for me to explain with words, I saw myself in a cosmic whole, I saw my place in the universe, that removed an enormous weight from me, the experience really helped me to free myself from a fear, that to die. Before, I was just struggling. That's all I can say about the phenomena I experienced.

I was in a state of shock, like a second birth but awake, brutal, unexpected and calculated, it is as if the destiny had imposed me to live this, I had a realization on the nature of myself. The place that I chose was very important to support me during this moment, I believe that deep inside I was prepared to live this since always, I feel really well, better than well, I realized that I had the power to manage this, I believe that the most important is not finished, after 12 hours I still feel the effects. 

Bravo!  On each of my twelve journeys with 5-MeO-DMT, I consciously dissolved, enigmatically into a vast vortexial fulcrum which completely erased my fragile personal framework, my accustomed mortal reference points, entirely!  Not at all comatose but vibrating at an incredibly high frequency.  The brainwave state this human vessel produced was most likely within the Lambda wave frequency (or so I humbly suggest).  I believe that in Zen, this is what is pointed towards by the descriptive, No Mind.  Human thought lifted into a trance state, washed away incrementally, but still enigmattically pulsing in rythem with it's own primordial epicenter...   Samadhi. This is the spiritual summit generations of mystics, magicians, theologians, monks and ascetics fervently seek in earnest, world over.  It's a most sacred gift that the Source shares with the psychonautically inclined amongst us.

Now the old Buddhist notion of a vast luminous emptiness seems quite relevant.  I have always been drawn to the word Sunyata to point towards such a limitless, blinding spiritual effulgence, whose quintessence exists beyond all substantiality.  I like that.  I also vibe with the notion of the Eternal Tao.  Yet, said force which seems inherent within everything...  is no-thing at all.  Not a thing but the source of all things?  It may well be the cause of all that is?  Whatever the whiteout experience gifts is relative to the individual but at the peak, an undifferentiated vacuum dissolves away the lines of any and all separation.    "The clear light of the void".

Godspeed my intrepid friend.  I likewise feel a focused need to ground-out the epiphany, find buoyancy and healing.  Thanx so much for sharing your profound experience!   

Greetings and welcome to this fine collective.  If you do Zazen, then you have an advantage journeying with 5-MeO.  I'm sure you'll experience, as do I, a greater understanding of the incomprehensible, bright Void.  Please share your impressions of this sacred medicine in the trip report section.  Namaskar!     

I am so sorry that you've suffered so much from your 2nd experience with 5-MeO-DMT.  And I wholly agree, you imbibed far too much of the sacrement.  Too much of any medicine is never good for the voyager's growth curve.  My only advice is to gradually ground yourself within this material realm and gently integrate your personal orientation to ordinary life again.  Prayer and affirmation are cathartic too.  There are a number of methods to firmly touch down:  Hatha yoga, Qi Gung, diet and nutrition, trail running, swimming, hiking in the mountains or walking by the seashore.  Sending you waves of love and heartfelt, healing vibes.   

[SuzyQ]

Welocome aboard, SuzyQ.  Would you be kind enough to share something about your voyages with the 5 sacrament, in the proper sub-forum?  How do they compare, contrast or even complete your previous psychedelic journeys?  Mine have certainly been the culmination of an entire lifetime of seeking.  Whàt specific revelations have dawned within you during your intrepid  immersions into the bright void?  Thanks for joining the community and please feel free to share your experiences.