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Welcome to the Hive

Looking forward to your contributions, thoughts, and exchanges.

May we all learn here!

Welcome to the forums

The toads dont need to be saved, no donations need to be made to purchase land to breed them, the toads need to be left alone, undisturbed as they have been over the last 10 million years that they have adapted to the unique landscape of the Sonoran desert.

This point is especially important in my opinion. The toads were fine before humans entered the equation.

I have also noticed that Facebook discussions become these emotionally-fueled echo chambers as people clamor for likes, notifications, and reactions to their posts. My hope is also that this forum can serve as a place where people can share their thoughts and feelings coming from Wise Mind rather than Emotional Mind and therefore engage in a dialogue that is constructive and uniting. The 5-MeO-DMT community is more fragmented than ever, and it is due to a lack of congruence between values and action.

Thank you Shy Violet for making your post and starting this conversation here. +1 

Fascinating information jamie!

I tried going to the Nexus to view those PDFs but unfortunately they were nowhere to be found. People in the thread were talking about the PDF but I didn't see anywhere to download it?

Phalaris grass is indeed a very fascinating direction for plant-based 5-MeO-DMT discovery, right up there with acacias as possible sources...it seems that Virola resin is much too difficult to do a proper extraction on. That being said, Phalaris also seems tricky. Luckily we have pioneers like you who are discovering what can be done with Phalaris!

Please do link to your Dragibus article if/when you do find it.

The gramine fallacy is an intriguing new development! I was always concerned about what when I had read it in the past.

All fixed now! Thank you!!

Yes, I agree this would be a great addition. I will work on finding a way to incorporate that into the site! Slammed with other projects at the moment but I will definitely put this on the list. Thank you for this feedback JBark!

To be brief, how do we all feel about whether to use a VPN and/ or a Tor browser for the perusing of this forum...


any thoughts?

You are welcome to do so

Welcome Child Horus,

A really fascinating story you have there! I am excited to see your ontological contributions to this space and your participation in the topics that will surely follow. This is a ripe time for discussion!

Cool that you came here from the podcast, Joe and Kyle are awesome guys.

Beautiful...just a quick note to say that it seems like your images aren't loading. Are they supposed to be big gray circles with horizontal lines through them?

Welcome Hummingbird!

We already have quite a bit of information on those topics posted, feel free to do a quick search using the search function. That can be found: here.

Check out the Questions section as well, as there will be many questions that may help you grow your understanding.

Great to have you here

Use this thread to post and discuss unethical practices, such as electronic shock devices.

Electric shock happens at 16:16, but there are other unethical practices exhibited in this video such as pouring water down the participant's throat and blowing rapé up his nose earlier in the video.

[Copying and reposting this from the desk of herpetologist Robert Anthony Villa addressing his concerns on the Sonoran desert toad:]

This is a deleted scene from the recent toad documentary on Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia which features interviews from tribe members talking about the true purpose/meaning of toads in their rituals.

Copying and reposting this from the desk of herpetologist Robert Anthony Villa addressing his concerns on the Sonoran desert toad:

"I worked as a consultant and fixer on the episode of Hamilton's Pharmacopeia that features Dr. Sandoval. There are a few issues that have come up since the airing of the piece. I will attempt to address them. It is part of a written piece I'm working on as a response to elucidate more details about the ethnoherpetology of Bufo alvarius.

The discovery of 5meoDMT in Bufo alvarius:
Bufo alvarius is the only animal known to produce 5meoDMT, one of the most powerful hallucinogens available to humans. If ancient American cultures utilized B. alvarius as a hallucinogen, there is no orally preserved tradition to indicate so. Papers treating this question are speculative and inconclusive. Such a significant compound as 5meoDMT is unlikely to have been forgotten following European contact. The depiction of frogs and toads (anurans) in ancient American material is for their significance as beings that dually inhabited the realms of land and water, underwent a remarkable metamorphosis, and were harbingers of live-giving seasonal rain. Toad remains associated with shamanic burial are identified as B. marinus.

The documentary claims that "Albert Most" sensu stricto is the first person to have accessed the 5meoDMT in the skin of B. alvarius for psychedelic purposes as a result of self-experimentation informed by the traditional knowledge of indigenous peoples. He states having smoked the skin secretions of other toad species before that of B. alvarius. However his 1983 pamphlet cites the discovery of 5meoDMT in B. alvarius in the 1960s.

Contemporary Use of 5meoDMT from Bufo alvarius:
The psychedelic use of B. alvarius travelled to Mexico where it was eventually introduced to indigenous cultures such as the Comca'ac (Seri) and Yaqui by shamanic practicioners. It is natural for cultures to appropriate novel advents from others and the "modern world".

The Comca'ac and Yaqui doctors have adopted the 5meoDMT of B. alvarius as a powerful and highly respected medicinal tool treating serious depression, psychological traumas, and most notably, addiction to methamphetamines and opiates.

However some of the shamanic practitioners have over stated this advent at best, and exploited indigenous cultures at worst, in order to inflate their following and bank accounts. I found it ironic in the documentary that after lamenting the death of B. alvarius on roads, Dr. Sandoval proceeded to express the sacred medicine from the glands of a run-over toad onto the road.

Toad Plight:
Bufo alvarius has been in the pet trade (illegally) for some time. However since the Vice video piece on Octavio Rettig, the demand for B. alvarius had gone up enough that in 2014 I was invited along with a friend to workshop with Yaqui psychologists in Sonora interested in its medicinal properties. They are concerned since toads are becoming notably diminished in areas due to heavy poaching. There is currently an illicit bounty on B. alvarius in Sonora.

Bufo alvarius may live to be well over 15 years old. The largest individuals are responsible for recruiting the greatest numbers of eggs and young into the ecosystem. The largest individuals are also the first to be detected by poachers. While smaller toads are able to reproduce, they aren't able to fully sustain populations with their smaller output of eggs. This toad does not usually fare well in captivity because they are usually in the hands of novice keepers; they have strong homing instinct; and tricky seasonal water balance requirements (dry season aestivation).

Besides poaching, B. alvarius and other wildlife face a multitude of other threats such as disease, climate change, pollution, and displacement by humans in a variety of ways. If synthetic 5meoDMT is just as effective, it should be substituted for that derived from B. alvarius. Stress and poaching of the toads can be mitigated by collecting their secretions in the close vicinity where they are found. That is, within their individual territories. But there should be no good reason to remove this toad from the natural habitat its been inhabiting for the last millions of years."

Hey there Jamie, and welcome!

It's really exciting to hear of someone working with plant extracts, as that is an area that is severely understudied in regards to 5-MeO-DMT (at least to the common knowledge). I think you may have a good point about Bufo Marinus, that would be an interesting discussion for the General Discussion board. I would be very interested in reading what your thoughts are!

Looking forward to reading your logs of experiments with various phalaris grasses. We have a thread going on this subject here: 5-MeO-DMT in Phalaris grass species and some other cool plant extraction discussion here: Best natural sources for 5-MeO-DMT.

Let the research begin!

This topic is of utmost importance. Thank you for starting this conversation Migdaloo. I hope that as a community we can come together to determine what Code or Conduct should be universally followed.

This topic has been moved to Ethics and Ecology.

https://forums.5meodmt.org/index.php?topic=50592.0