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We try to keep irrelevant or offensive topics and/or distracting links at bay. Please feel free to share your feelings, ideas, direct experiences and sincere questions.  You are most welcome on this site.  Aho & Namaskar. 🙏✨✨✨✨✨

Atman is Brahman. 

Hare Krishna.   

Thank you for your comment Rising Spirit !
 

Thank you for joining the 5 Hive.  Happiest Holidays to you and yours.   

"After the second dose, which could be described as a release of tension, I take the last dose of 10 mg.
Immediately, when my head hit the pillow, there was an explosion of light and a rapid expansion towards the cosmos!
Blast off.
A powerful and irresistible energy, in which I agree to let myself be carried away, overwhelmed.
I did not offer resistance. Anyway, is it possible to resist this tsunami? The room and its occupants disappeared.
I was only aware of my breathing.
I think I was this expanding light.
It was a moment of bliss that I could also describe as ecstasy, euphoria or cosmic orgasm!
Letting go was liberating and the immersion in this powerful light extended into the cosmos.
I felt that I was that light.
No thoughts, no fear, no memory, nothing, just ecstasy!
With each exhalation I heard myself say Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
of wonder, of astonishment!

How can i describe this light, this space? I still wonder.

I was not afraid of dying, nor felt that I was dead. There were no concept of god either. This light was benevolent .
Frankly I don't feel that I've experienced an ego dissolution.  Or could this happen without pain ?                                                               

At the end of the ceremony, I had the impression of having lived a cosmic trip, and it was the most intense, special, astonishing, beneficial and liberating experience of my life.
I have never experienced anything like this."

Just beautiful.  I humbly submit that you have indeed experienced ego dissolution.  Granted, there are degrees of ego dissolution but tasting the ecstasy of the undifferentiated light demands both surrender and a kind of soulful receptivity.  I am overjoyed that your inaugural voyages were so powerful.
 Aho, Namaste and Namaskar.      

Hello to all!

I guest that those 5 stages are dose dependant,and that they portrait a full experience.

''Yet, are we returned the same as before the intrepid voyage was initiated?  Hardly. ''

I think that we return at least a bit different with a shallow experience and a lot with a deep one.

The days following my initiation ,i noticed that my mental state was calm and at peace.
Also my patience and tolerance had improved.
  
 

Thank you for responding.  Regardless of dosage, set or setting...  I feel that the five stages are most pertinent and exist as a kind of psycho-spiritual template.  Naturally, stages #1. and #5. are only present in mindful, psychonautical pilgrims who choose to hone their intention prior to transcendence and a willingness to ground the divine epiphanies and direct attention to integration and steady buoyancy within the fabric of ordinary consensus reality.   

A few new links for an old thread. 

https://consciousnessliberty.com/beyond-delta-gamma-superconsciousness-lambda-epsilon-brainwave-states/

https://youtu.be/9D30mpN-jWQ?si=SViQO4bDf46uDixY

https://youtu.be/VplUxhhpkYQ?si=CE9BgP83ktO0Mweq

https://www.binauralbeatsfreak.com/brainwave-entrainment/epsilon-waves-lambda-waves

Greetings all, I'd really like to begin a qualitative discussion about what might be considered the five key stages of the 5-MeO-DMT experience.  Obviously, one could feasibly imagine hundreds if not thousands of stages of consciousness, with an interphase with a molecule of this force, majesty and immensity.  But I humbly believe that much of these nearly infinite, possibilities in cognitive awareness can be universally encapsulated into a reasonable, finite number and besides...  I honestly couldn't resist the numeric reference to the 5 medicine.  Everyone would likely reason them to their own preferences and name them accordingly. I humbly feel that these are the 5 primary stages that occur to the 5 pilgrim:

#1. Anointment through Ceremony.  #2. Surrender & Absorption.  #3. Union & Attunement with Source.  #4. Re-crystallization & Rebirth.  #5. Healing & Integration.

Arguably, this is a gross simplification and could certainly be expanded further.  And please, I welcome any and all comments or contributions to this discussion, as ideally it is a conversation.  One with input from other psychonautical travelers within this family.  Feel free to share your ideas.   

While it only seems to have relevance on this side of the looking glass, where one can interpret reality subjectively, there exists a profound degree of what I call, "the remembrance" by all who boldly journey with the 5 sacrament. Perhaps we could view the 5-MeO experience as a perceptual voyage beyond the membrane dividing the inside and the outside, the substantial and the insubstantial, the cause and the personal effect of being both the source and the reflection of what I personally label as, The Divine.  That eternal no-thingness pulsing within all that becomes something.  More so, it is my belief, in the hindsight of my 12 experiences with this medicine, paradox is present both during the culmination and the re-entry phase of the trip. 

Said paradox creates a most unusual and unique experiential pendulum of sorts, as when the individual soul enters the realm of the nondual, boundaryless expanse of undifferentiated, blinding white light energy, all personal thought ceases to exist.   There is an alignment that happens. I  label this as, "the eclipsing" for as a massive force of expanssive energy rushes through us, temporarily shattering our unique cocoons of self mesmerism, all individuation effectively dissipates.  This then, in effect, blocks out our experience of being a separate part, independent of the whole totality of life.  Our mortal vantage point is temporarily obliterated, totally frozen and unreachable...  or is it merely suspended? 

Now regardless of this self-stasis, there is maintained on one level or another, an epicentrical core presence.  I theorize that this absolute Source energy,  weaves a cosmic tapestry, spontaneously fueling the dichotomy of manifested being and the sheerest void of non-being.  And is wholly indivisible, ineffible, unquantifiable and the sum total of the mysterious Omniverse, just doing it's thing. Dissolving into a such a vortexial fulcrum consumes all of our personal reference points and even the palpable identification with our very own sense of self.  Empty, unmoving silence sits quietly, deep within the ringing vibration of each birthing human soul bird, who reaches out fearlessly, uttering voice and taking spiritual flight within the neon effulgence...  the supreme light of all lights.  Much as the proverbial, "moth to the flame".

So, in light of these paradoxical fluctuations in subjectification, each of us recrystallizes right back into finite, three dimensional existence. Yet, are we returned the same as before the intrepid voyage was initiated?  Hardly.  Much reflection and integration are required to find balance and proper buoyancy within consensus reality and the delicate interplay between oneself and others.  I have myself, felt a far stronger bond with all living things.  It's certainly a rebirthing process, which can be both a blessing and sometimes a curse.  How so?  I can only testify as to my own 12 journeys, but within the timeless, directionless vacuum of the peak moments, an almost indescribable bliss is present and an awareness of love as a unitive field.  Coming down from such heights can be most daunting.  Even heartbreaking, in some not so subtle ways. 

Who is it that knows such euphoric ecstasy?  Again, the ultimate paradox presents itself loud and clear.  Without awareness of an ego, self referencing or even self orientation...  who/what/where is it that resides in such resplendent freedom, radiating an absolutely undiluted state of universality? Naturally, out of this formless Omniscience, pours myriad streams of life, sacred geometries and an infinite potential of substantiation, creation and eventual dissolution.

Might we exchange thoughts about this kind blowing and transformative sacred medicine and it's profound impact in our lives?  Many thanks! 
Aho, Namaste and Namaskar.               

Awesomeness.   

[Eddie]

God speed, Eddie.  Surrender and faith are key to direct immersion and the erasure of layers upon layers of self-identification.  The whole universe suddenly  implodes and dissolves into a blinding neon whiteness.  Still,  an unborn yet ancient essence blooms anew, as a wholly unique, most spiritual rebirthing of oneself, blooming as the sacred dreamer.       

[the remembrance]

In regards to the tremendous shift in one's consciousness brought about by ceremony with the sacred 5 molecule, I humbly submit that any attempt to articulate the dissolution of one's ordinary modality of self mesmerizm, is effectively shattered into so much cosmic dust. It might be speculative on my part, but when one's illusions are washed away with such potent force...  who then remains to maintain any iota of cognitive, subjective attention?  I'd add that during every single one of my nondual epiphanies, there occurs a certain degree of total white out.  What happens is not exactly a completely blank canvas, dead voidness, nor a state of helpless comatose.  Rather, without thought process or identity through self-orientation, by what measure does one fathom the unfathomable?  It would be sheer insanity to proclaim that without rational thought, premeditated determination or habitual intention, for any strata of self awareness to survive the wholly dissolving fulcrum of attunement to pure Source omniscience, that the 5 medicine reliably gifts.

What does come through so beautifully and so divinely intended, is that while during the full-eclipsing with the sacred white vacuum of limitless infinity, that insubstancial, yet magnificently effulgent power, there is both soul recognition and deep spiritual resonance. I call it the remembrance.  Minds are frozen by the overwhelming and unbridled force of the 5 molecule. Identification with our accustomed storylines are essentially, temporarily erased yet, something mysteriously wonderful still pulses sublimely, without name, dimension nor any form.  A profound symbiosis occurs to those accustomed to long periods of time without fixation upon thoughts and one's internal dialog.  This is primarily why I so enthusiastically emphasize the magical practice of daily sitting and moving meditation.  Existence is relative to one's mindset and to the programmed patterning of our unique, experientially learned behavior.  Freeze that pattern and conscious-awareness still resides and perception, while it may lack perceivable orientation, voyages on through our willing surrender of control and habitual need for finite quantification...  but still maintains buoyancy through the miracle of focussed attention.

Ultimately, I surmise that in such a buoyant ego stasis, one erasing of self projection and maintenance of concrete reality, a most lovely state of attunement and receptivity blooms.  Within such a vortexial fulcrum of no-thingness...  what appears to be absolute emptiness is essentially a force of limitless potentiality, a beginningless and endless recycling of becoming and in turn, dissolving into sheerest oblivion.  Such is the dualistic nature of 3 dimensional, material existence, as it is birthed, rippens and eventually dissipates back into undifferentiated formlessness. What does remain if everything is so utterly transient?  I hypothesize that pure Source energy resides within all strata of phenomenal occurrences and all degrees of existential being.  Call it the Godhead or the eternal Tao or the Great Spirit...  yet it matters little.  What does emphatically matter, is attunement to this Source energy and a remembrance of always having been indivisibly one with this miraculous field of absolute potentiality, endlessly blooming, ad infinitum.

And then...  out sheerest emptiness explodes luminosity beyond description.  Let there be Light!  There was an overwhelmingly immense, blinding illumination and radiance..  Flooding, cascading, revitalizing effulgence emerges to bring a spark and enlightening vibration of intuitive understanding and then, divine transmission awakens the soul bird to take immortal flight.  Herein, is the sacred treasure, the very kernel of philosophy and of all religions.  As Hermes Trismegistus said so profoundly, nearly 3000 years ago, "As above, so bellow.  As within, so without.  As the universe, so the soul."  Unity is the only law which endures.  We are one and I honor you all with fierce yet loving reverence.  Aho, Namaste and Namaskar.     
                 

   
     

[(perhaps something akin to Ayahuasca?)]

My apologies for referencing the "1942 printing of Autobiography Of A Yogi" as it was actually published in 1946. That being said, later editions were edited thoroughly by the Self Realization Fellow and censorship was applied.  And I am not professing that entheogenic compounds are valid alternatives to strict Yogic training.  For myself they are not mutually exclusive.  It is as clear as crystal that Sri Lahiri Mahasaya didn't publicly advocate using hashish or herbal drinks to his students, the decades he was a spiritual teacher.  He taught a scientific methodology known of as Kriya Yoga... but upon his first reacquaintance with his Gurudeva, imbibed what was undoubtedly hash oil and mention if herbal drinks prepared by the Master Yogi.  So without further adieu, I cut and pasted the passage I had mentioned above.

"For more than three decades I have waited for you here—waited for you to return to me!' Babaji's voice rang with celestial love. 'You slipped away and vanished into the tumultuous waves of the life beyond death. The magic wand of your karma touched you, and you were gone! Though you lost sight of me, never did I lose sight of you! I pursued you over the luminescent astral sea where the glorious angels sail. Through gloom, storm, upheaval, and light I followed you, like a mother bird guarding her young. As you lived out your human term of womb-life, and emerged a babe, my eye was ever on you. When you covered your tiny form in the lotus posture under the Nadia sands in your childhood, I was invisibly present! Patiently, month after month, year after year, I have watched over you, waiting for this perfect day. Now you are with me! Lo, here is your cave, loved of yore! I have kept it ever clean and ready for you. Here is your hallowed asana-blanket, where you daily sat to fill your expanding heart with God! Behold there your bowl, from which you often drank the nectar prepared by me! See how I have kept the brass cup brightly polished, that you might drink again therefrom! My own, do you now understand?' (perhaps something akin to Ayahuasca?)

"'My guru, what can I say?' I murmured brokenly. 'Where has one ever heard of such deathless love?' I gazed long and ecstatically on my eternal treasure, my guru in life and death.

"'Lahiri, you need purification. Drink the oil in this bowl and lie down by the river.' Babaji's practical wisdom, I reflected with a quick, reminiscent smile, was ever to the fore.

"I obeyed his directions. Though the icy Himalayan night was descending, a comforting warmth, an inner radiation, began to pulsate in every cell of my body. I marveled. Was the unknown oil imbued with a cosmical heat?  (possibly hash oil?)

"Bitter winds whipped around me in the darkness, shrieking a fierce challenge. The chill wavelets of the Gogash River lapped now and then over my body, outstretched on the rocky bank. Tigers howled near-by, but my heart was free of fear; the radiant force newly generated within me conveyed an assurance of unassailable protection. Several hours passed swiftly; faded memories of another life wove themselves into the present brilliant pattern of reunion with my divine guru.

"My solitary musings were interrupted by the sound of approaching footsteps. In the darkness, a man's hand gently helped me to my feet, and gave me some dry clothing.

"'Come, brother,' my companion said. 'The master awaits you.'

"He led the way through the forest. The somber night was suddenly lit by a steady luminosity in the distance.

"'Can that be the sunrise?' I inquired. 'Surely the whole night has not passed?".    

[Self]

quote author=spritoflight link=msg=56885 date=1693956613]I study Advaita Vedanta through a beloved scolar of Ramana Maharshi. I was blessed to meet him last year (before my first 5MEO) and asked if he thought psychedelics could be helpful to go within : 'No', the teacher said. But it was my prarabha to take 5MEO. I stayed with the memory of that powerfull experience  (where I sank at the bottom of myself - union) for a year before going back to him and exposing it, asking if it was true spirituality. 'No, it is not'. It was certainly disapointing and I still think he doesn't understand ! How arrogant!!

Namaskar, my friend.  Sri Ramana Maharshi has been one of my biggest inspirations for over 45 years now.  My infatuation with Advaita Vedanta began with the writings of Sri Swami Vivekananda, whose eloquent words ignited a flame within my mind's heart.  I threw myself into the teachings of Adi Shankaracharya and honestly, severe austerity and a life of total monastic renunciation is not my path.  That said, timeless wisdom touches each of us in unique ways...  and the ultimate truth is that there are no differences between oneself and The Self.  I've a penchant for naming the higher Self as, the Omniself, as it is all selves at once and yet, remains  unbound by any division nor differentiations.

I strongly feel that direct experience is the only way to merge into states of Samadhi and lose the illusion of one's finite identity. Reliance on any teaching, meditation method or sacred medicine, is still operating within the dualistic realm and frankly, until a seed is ready to sprout, it's silly to adhere concretely to the narrow monastic or scholarly way.

He said :
Drugs can only affect what appears in our awareness and whatever is experienced is nourrishing ego.
Drugs cannot drive the mind within only grace can.
Drugs can only lead to a state of 'manolaya', like sleep, wich has no spiritual benefit or lead to more experiences.
Only the mere awarness of I AM can dissolve ego, 'manonassa'.

Grace manifests in many ways.  Worshipping the physical form or spiritual teachings of the Guru cannot automatically bestow Grace.  And while "Drugs" do indeed fuel the ego of the traveler...  entheogenic compounds are not drugs.  Nath yogis, Buddhists and Taoists have used alchemy for thousands if years in their sadhana. If you look closely into the original 1942 printing of Autobiography Of A Yogi, there are clear references of entheogenic substances being used by Sri Lahiri Mahasaya, when he was first reunited with his Gurudeva, Sri Babaji Maharaj.  I will find them and post them here, later on.       

I was touched that you waited 5 years to share with words what is unspeakable. The answers given by the teacher helped me to see how attached I am to this experience of union. How I refer to it when I think about God. I feel you are too.

One of the greatest ironies about dissolving into the nondual Source, is that we are most compelled to communicate something of the experience, after being reborn into corporeal, material reality. Granted, nothing can be said of the fusion...  but in the post eclipsing aftermath of the whiteout unification, some small jewels crystallizes within the mind's heart and find expression through thoughts, deeds and in essence, vibrationally. And yes, may all souls find ecstatic solice in the realization of undifferentiated, seamless Oneness.  Aho, Namaste and Namaskar. 

The very first time that I smoked 5-MeO-DMT was just over five years ago.  Within seconds...  I experienced falling forwards into an immense void.  My capacity for any subjective perception dissolved into the sheerest emptiness imaginable.  Just moments before all differentiations whited-out, I was certain that I had killed myself.  Then all strata of reality became a silent, insubstantial vacuum of sorts, absorbing and erasing any iota of separation. 

Were there a self witnessing the dissolution, it might have been rather terrifying but all distinction betwixt the inside and the outside had vanished.  All there was, as I later recalled, was this boundaryless, directionless,  no-thingness.  It wasn't all inky blackness nor a blinding luminosity.  It was totally unknown and unknowable, ineffible yet all-pervasive.  This zero point is impossible to describe, naturally, as it is wholly nondual.  Yet, being a monkey...  I must chatter all about what cannot even be feasibly spoken of, nor ever put into language.   Lol. 🐒

I can't say how long this was an endlessly, beginningless, looping continuum...  as I was technically not even there.  Perhaps there is an absolute wealth of unborn potentiation, silently gestating within it's limitless formlessness?  That said and upon further remembrance, after what seemed an infinite degree of silence, a vibration began to be felt.  An oscillation ignited this epic cross friction.  An urge to exist, to be, to experience conscious-awareness incrementally seeded itself as a dawning realization of a dichotomy, a dynamic of self orientation re-crystallized. 

The vibration increased until is was distinctly audible.  But to whom?  The indivisibility of the nondual field began to divide and be divided into individualized cognition and a knowledge of existing.  That which perceives, became aware of that which is perceived.  The unborn was born anew and a powerful desire to exist began to pulse with increased urgency.  The "I" that had dissolved so quickly, re-coalesced into some kind of ancient, yet infantile urge to become.  To be rebirthed into duality. 

But why?  I don't suppose anyone will ever know.  Then there was suddenly a blinding white light exploding from everywhere and from no where.  "Let there be Light!".  Said luminosity manifested some kind of mirrored interplay between the Light itself and the witness to the effulgence.   The auditory vibration pulsed in sync with the rest of the boudaryless light field.  It hummed and crackled, echoing this roaring force, emanating from some unfathomable quietude. 

The newly reborn composite, I/me/myself, that became an individuated vortexial fulcrum, began tearing up.  I had been reborn, separate from the Oneness but deeply in love with the divinity of the whole.  Ego-self wept from the pain of the separation but delighted in the sincere worship of the Godhead.  I suspect that I was in such pure ecstasy for some good measure of time! 

I seemed to recall desiring to become.  Longing to love and be loved in return.  I was both the subject and the object, entwined in some cosmic, mysterious dance.  An understanding of my need to become sentient, bloomed from deeply inside of a mortal heart.  I had remembered now just why I had chosen to be born.  An immense need to create dimensionality resided within the universal pulse which was echoed in the beating of a human heart.  With every heartbeat, a dreaming self declared it's existential being.  I am.  I exist.  But do I really?  How can one be both, the Source and the reflection? 

A sudden remembrance popped up within the fabric of my mind, of having always being at the epicenter of all paradigms all at once and also, of being every little particle and photon riding the waves further away from the unbroken Omniscience...  thus, manifesting an eternity in the making.  Gratitude replaced the blissfulness of indivisibility and a tremendous feeling of wanting to do good service to all other dreaming selves.  I thank you all for arriving here, now.  Together we must heal ourselves and each other.   If love is the buzz and I believe that it surely is...  I emphatically love you all and fiercely so!  Aho, Namaste and Namaskar.

🙏💜👁�💜🙏

Hi Rising,

I don't think they are intentionally being fraudulent. I think they, more or less, believe their misguided and misinformed views though I also think this entails a lot of avoidance and denial on their part. I'm somewhat familiar with the principals in the "church" and want to discuss this with them in a way that is considerate of where they are at while also being honest, clear and accurate. Of course, as in any dialog, it takes a willingness on both parts to engage and see ones blind spots and how strongly held positions may be in error.  This may not be possible with them.

I've been Facebook friends with Jenna first, and shortly afterwards, with Greg Lake, having met from one or more of the 5-MeO pages.  Good folks.  And I can vouch for the quality of their vision and dedication to spiritual awakening.  So naming the Church after the molecule, it seemed pretty clear that the sacrament was indeed stated to be 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT, AKA Psilomethoxin. That said, it was always implied and even directly stated the sacrement was essentially, an orally activate form of 5-MeO-DMT, or at least a hybrid molecule which had supplanted the psilocybin and psilocin contained within the cubensis mushroom hosts, leaving no trace of them.  And there's no need for a MAOI to allow for digestion and psychedelic activity.  Providing a slower onset and a longer lasting journey.


I had always believed that they had a team of qualified chemists doing the work and that isolating the highly promoted Psilomethoxin molecule had been likewise, completely conclusive.  I have seen their demo 3-D molecular model and assumed there was definitive science involved.   It's rather disappointing to hear that blind faith is a part of the Church's modus operandi.  Could this point to the possibility of a 5-like placebo effect fueled by psilocybin/psilocin?  I wish Martin Ball would comment about this issue of growing concern.  His personal experiences would potentially shed some much needed light herein.  Be well and stay high but do maintain critical thinking, everyone.   


Bellow are 2-D models of the molecules 5-MeO-DMT and 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT  [redacted to save space]