Author Topic: Bufo-cybin ?  (Read 734 times)

Offline Flux

  • Global Moderator
  • Cosmic Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Bufo-cybin ?
« on: January 24, 2018, 02:45:17 AM »
Well this got my attention... (although I cannot imagine anyone having enough 5-MeO-DMT to explore this on anything other than a micro scale;


" [/size]Alexander Shulgin[/color][/size] has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in [/color][/size]psilocybin mushrooms[/color][/size] by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus". [/color]
[/size][/color]
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Transcendent Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bufo-cybin ?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 06:25:12 AM »
Fascinating! I remember this idea going around many times with various substances. For further reading, this paper seems of interest to understand the method more deeply (see paper attached).

It seems also fair to say that one would have no idea what would happen in vivo with that added hydroxy group. There has also been speculation that the fungi would only modify some tryptamine compounds (such as DET or DPT) yet not others, though I think further reading/investigation would be required. A curious concept, and a potential for synthesis, as I imagine one could theoretically produce 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT and then remove the 4-HO and end up with a pure extraction of 5-MeO-DMT. All speculation but intriguing nonetheless.

EDIT: I have fixed the PDF so now you should be able to open it. Sorry!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:52:31 AM by HumbleVoyager »

Offline RoundAbout

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bufo-cybin ?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 01:21:56 AM »
Well this got my attention... (although I cannot imagine anyone having enough 5-MeO-DMT to explore this on anything other than a micro scale;

"Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus".

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Hydroxy-5-methoxydimethyltryptamine

Interesting. I don't know why you would call it bufo-cybin though. Bufotenin is 5-HO-DMT, and this is 5-MeO. Cybin implies the phosphorylated version of 4-HO-DMT also (which might be produced too)

Fascinating! I remember this idea going around many times with various substances. For further reading, this paper seems of interest to understand the method more deeply (see paper attached).

It seems also fair to say that one would have no idea what would happen in vivo with that added hydroxy group. There has also been speculation that the fungi would only modify some tryptamine compounds (such as DET or DPT) yet not others, though I think further reading/investigation would be required. A curious concept, and a potential for synthesis, as I imagine one could theoretically produce 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT and then remove the 4-HO and end up with a pure extraction of 5-MeO-DMT. All speculation but intriguing nonetheless.

To produce 4,5 HO-MeO-DMT this way you would need to start with 5-MeO-DMT. Why would you bother adding it, extracting it from the mushrooms (which wouldn't produce nearly as much psilocin and psilocybin now), then remove the hydroxyl group? Are you suggesting it would really uptake it from unprocessed substrate or what? This doesn't make sense to me.

The uploaded PDF fails to open... I'm curious how much went in and came out.

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Transcendent Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bufo-cybin ?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 08:56:07 AM »
Hey there RoundAbout, I fixed the PDF for you. Sorry about that! You should be able to download and read now. Let me know if you still aren't able to.

In the paper, they talk about how when they did the experiment, the fungi stopped producing psilocin or psilocybin and instead were producing the phosphorylated compound 4-HO-DET (if I remember correctly). It also seems the quantity they got out was greater than what was put in, so perhaps once the fungi start producing the 4-HO compounds, they forget about the psilocin and psilocybin. It is a well-written paper, with a well-documented methodology.

Offline RoundAbout

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bufo-cybin ?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 12:49:41 PM »
Hey there RoundAbout, I fixed the PDF for you. Sorry about that! You should be able to download and read now. Let me know if you still aren't able to.

In the paper, they talk about how when they did the experiment, the fungi stopped producing psilocin or psilocybin and instead were producing the phosphorylated compound 4-HO-DET (if I remember correctly). It also seems the quantity they got out was greater than what was put in, so perhaps once the fungi start producing the 4-HO compounds, they forget about the psilocin and psilocybin. It is a well-written paper, with a well-documented methodology.

I don't see enough information in the paper to calculate the amount in and out. But regardless, the paper never implies that the mushrooms are able to add an ethyl group, or any other feature not common to psilocybin or psilocin (the addition of groups common to these is the entire basis of this paper, i.e. 4-hydroxylation, O-phosphorylation and N-methylation). Likewise, if you added 5-MeO-DMT, the mushrooms could not add the 5-methoxy group just because you added some 5-MeO-DMT first... it simply does not have the enzymes to do such.

I think it's worth noting that the author is the same person that claimed to have boosted the psilocin content to record levels by addition of tryptamine. This hasn't been replicated despite being known for so long with a relatively simple and convenient process (and there has been much interest with many attempts).  Similarly, this is a very simple procedure that was published long ago, yet apparently no one has a properly documented success with it. I wonder why.

Thank you for making the paper accessible.

Edit: Corrected 4-phosphorylation to O-phosphorylation
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 11:26:54 AM by RoundAbout »

Offline HumbleVoyager

  • Administrator
  • Transcendent Toad
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bufo-cybin ?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 03:00:05 PM »
I agree with you. There's much mystery around this one. I doubt it as well, because I think that if it were easy to do or if it were a real process, many people would be doing it by now and there would be more thorough documentation of this methodology.