Author Topic: The Drop That Became The Sea  (Read 514 times)

Offline d.a.t.s.

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
The Drop That Became The Sea
« on: March 18, 2019, 07:24:09 AM »
I am brand new to 5-MEO and scheduled my first session next week. I write this post to share two previous experiences of non-dual perception. I read the posting guidelines for this subforum and I'm not sure if this is the correct place this post (the following experiences had no relation to 5-MEO). If not, please move to the appropriate subforum.
 
SPIRITUAL PRACTICE/WORK
 
I was initially introduced to spiritual work in the 1990’s. After experimenting with several approaches, I discovered the Fourth Way (a school of teaching originally introduced by G.I. Gurdjieff) emphasizing self-observation and a form of ‘active meditation’ referred to as self-remembering. The ‘active meditation’ (self-remembering) I describe is a practice of dis-identification from thoughts, negative emotions, subjective opinions, ideals, and beliefs as they arise into awareness during active participation in daily life. Some, such as Osho, compare it to Vipassana meditation.
 
I was actively engaged in the Work for a few years and discovered many remarkable things (one of which is described below) before gradually falling back into old patterns of conditioned behavior. In December 2017, I awoke to the realization of where I was and what I had been sacrificing and resumed a renewed purpose of life…To be awake again and living in the daily magic of love and freedom from judgement!
 
20 YEARS AGO
 
After being engaged in the Work for some time and experiencing progressively deeper levels of love and interconnectedness, something remarkable happened while I was working in a restaurant. I don’t remember how/when it unfolded and memory can’t truly replicate the experience. All that I can describe are powerful, yet vague impressions. “I” disappeared and was “replaced” by a sense of omnipresent love and complete unity with all things. As this was happening, the body was animated and waiting on tables, taking orders, and delivering food but with full conscious awareness that ALL IS GOD! There was also a powerful intuition/knowing that “this Greater Reality” was always and has always been present. There was an indescribable and powerful sense of primal déjà vu (deep familiarity/remembering). 
 
As far as sensory phenomenon, I remember everything visually cast in a glowing halo yet there was absolutely no sense of disorientation or distraction. I also remember hearing every conversation in the room simultaneously and understanding all of them. Although I was fully aware of the sensory experience, the sense of love/identity seemed timeless and boundless—infinitely expanded beyond the confines of the 3-dimensional space of the surrounding environment.
 
It was a front row seat to the Greatest Show on Earth!
 
NOVEMBER 2018
 
I had been re-engaged in the Work for about nine months when an unusual dream occurred while traveling. It was after my morning wake-up call and when I went back to sleep for a couple of minutes.
 
It started as an ordinary dream...I was in my company office with many of our normal office staff. It was a different office environment, but activity was normal and there was nothing unusual.
 
My boss and business partner was pressuring our IT manager for explanation about delay on a project when something interesting happened—Everything froze in place as if someone stopped a film.
 
The moment this happened, awareness began to expand and ‘drift’ outward from the ‘dream body/POV identity’ fluidly throughout this frozen scene. This non-corporeal and egoless sense of ‘I’ was incredibly familiar. As it happened, there was a knowledge that a body was asleep, a dream was suspended in animation, and a powerful intuition that there was nothing to fear and only trust/truth/remembrance in what was happening. What was a frozen scene of action in a dream became a black void as non-corporeal awareness expanded. Although the void was all I perceived, there was a feeling/sense of infinite expansion. It felt as if all remembered identity and existence became non-existent. Unlike recent experiences of nn,DMT-induced reality, it wasn’t a different perception of spatial (e.g., 2D, 1D) reality, but rather pure void (No-Thing).
 
At some point I sensed a physical body and awoke. Identity (and this 4-D world of perception) was back.
 
 
This was a long post. If anyone is interested, I’d be happy to share some thoughts about unique similarities and noteworthy differences between entheogen-induced and non-entheogen induced spiritual discoveries.
 
Wishing you peace, love, and wondrous discovery!
D.A.T.S.

 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 02:09:10 PM by d.a.t.s. »

Offline d.a.t.s.

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 06:00:11 AM »
Greetings! I haven't posted in follow up to earlier messages, but an admin reached out by email and asked me to return and explore discussion further.

It was my intent after experimenting with Bufo to compare the 5-MEO experience to the other non-dual experiences I described in my last post. However, my Bufo experience fell short of a 'breakthrough.' I had difficulty getting a sufficient dose by vaporizing through a meth pipe. In fairness to my host, he offered to load up again, but something pretty cool happened...I realized that making the comparison wasn't all that important and I just enjoyed listening to my host play his flute and the experience of agape in our discussion.

I would still like to try 5-MEO some day. But perhaps when opportunity permits using synthetic 5-MEO. Vaporizing Bufo out of a meth pipe was much more challenging than inhaling nn,DMT out of a wax vape pen (which resulted in a one-hit 'surprise breakthrough' on my first experiment!).

I am also interested to hear from others who may have had non-dual experiences with both entheogens and revealed through non-entheogenic means. Some time ago, a spiritual teacher who I respect well for his lucidity, lack of BS, and simplicity implied that objective consciousness has varying depths/states of awareness. He made no further discussion of this matter, leaving it to the 'student' to discover for oneself. He was always very cautious of not giving students engaged in the Work of self-observation (e.g., unraveling their existing beliefs, ideals, etc.) fodder for new beliefs. In essence, 'replacing old bricks in the wall of Self with new stones.'

Listening to Martin Ball comment on 5-MEO, he states with confidence that the 5-MEO experience is a state of Oneness which cannot be replicated through spiritual work. When I expressed this to a friend deeply experienced in spiritual work, he dismissed Ball and implied that generations of people have 'awakened' to non-dual realization through non-entheogenic means (not to mention spontaneous awakenings, such as Eckhart Tolle). I personally have experienced the truth of my friend's statement. But I don't dismiss Ball either. If there are indeed varying depths to the experience on non-dual perception, it seems there may be a difference in how that state of awareness is induced and I suspect it has to do somehow with two related things:

1) Active sensory perception...Sensory awareness is a tether to the 4-D (spacetime) reality of the physical body.

2) State of physical consciousness (e.g., waking state, dream state, entheogenic suppression of brain activity, etc.)

I am also curious about another matter too... Setting aside 'Great Moments of Non-Dual Realization', one the greatest benefits of spiritual work is the unraveling of the self and release of attachment (via disidentification) to beliefs, ideals, self-images, blame/guilt, and all that other stuff which tortures the psyche of conditioned man. I can't speak for the Buddhas and Jesuses of human history, but it seems most people who engage in serious spiritual work spend 99+% of their time in a subjective state of consciousness to some degree. By subjective states of awareness, I am also describing bliss, perception of unique connections, deep stillness/presence, and some other states of awareness which only seem to open through the active Work of meditation/disidentification, self-observation, etc.

For those who only engage in discovery through 5-MEO, how has the experience transformed your daily experience of life? I know most sense a deeper sense of freedom and inner security, but have you found yourself less bound by the chains of the self (e.g., fear/compelling desire, button-presses and consequent negative emotions, etc..)? Has universal love/primal empathy and inner peace awakened as active forces of daily life experience?


I am very curious to hear about this. I have a few hypotheses about how how spiritual work and entheogens may tie together for a more leveraged transformative process. But it's only ideas at this stage.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 06:24:57 AM by d.a.t.s. »

Offline Curador

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2019, 10:03:02 PM »

I am also interested to hear from others who may have had non-dual experiences with both entheogens and revealed through non-entheogenic means. Some time ago, a spiritual teacher who I respect well for his lucidity, lack of BS, and simplicity implied that objective consciousness has varying depths/states of awareness. He made no further discussion of this matter, leaving it to the 'student' to discover for oneself. He was always very cautious of not giving students engaged in the Work of self-observation (e.g., unraveling their existing beliefs, ideals, etc.) fodder for new beliefs. In essence, 'replacing old bricks in the wall of Self with new stones.'

Listening to Martin Ball comment on 5-MEO, he states with confidence that the 5-MEO experience is a state of Oneness which cannot be replicated through spiritual work. When I expressed this to a friend deeply experienced in spiritual work, he dismissed Ball and implied that generations of people have 'awakened' to non-dual realization through non-entheogenic means (not to mention spontaneous awakenings, such as Eckhart Tolle). I personally have experienced the truth of my friend's statement. But I don't dismiss Ball either. If there are indeed varying depths to the experience on non-dual perception, it seems there may be a difference in how that state of awareness is induced and I suspect it has to do somehow with two related things:
To put it simply, I agree with Ball in that this is not spiritual.  Some will attach spiritual beliefs to it.  Anyone who wants to have it and can relax and trust the experience should be able to experience a full release given the set, setting and right dosage.  That, based on my own experience and what I've read and watched so far, which is becoming quite a bit but I've just started really.

I am "that" which you are.

I know nothing.


Offline uncletedly

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 03:03:27 PM »
I do not agree that unity consciousness can only be entheogenically induced. I know a number of of awakened folks who have experienced "full release" without entheogens. I gave the 5 experience (80 mg toad) to one who sat unmoving through the 15 minutes he was out. While he was impressed with the speed of the launch, he did not find it any different than what he can experience without the entheogen. He felt it could be useful as a "pointing out" exercise, as in Mahamudra of Tibetan Buddhism, but the individual then returns to their ego which is still intact. Spiritual awakening does include stages such as unity consciousness and the experience of "no self". This eventually becomes ones default being. Using 5, one can have a peek at unity consciousness but one comes back to where they were after a short time. The real work is to drop the reliance on thoughts and beliefs and be able eventually to hang out in the space prior to thought. No amount of any substance will do this work for you. Sorry, no instant gratification.

Offline Curador

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 03:27:04 PM »
Using 5, one can have a peek at unity consciousness but one comes back to where they were after a short time. The real work is to drop the reliance on thoughts and beliefs and be able eventually to hang out in the space prior to thought. No amount of any substance will do this work for you. Sorry, no instant gratification.
                                                                                                                                                                     

I agree that some type of practice would be best before and after.  When watching videos of first-timers who are relatively young, say less than 35, it makes me wonder what self awareness practice they may have about them and what it will be like for them after this big opening.                                                                                               


I was not able to experience a full release prior to my experience with 5.  I have had many experiences in that direction through different types of "work" and stillness practice.  I am hopeful to be able to have another 5 experience soon but with the synthesized substance. 

I am less interested in the toad venom since I already see too many frenzied posts in other forums from those without a clue wanting to capture toads and milk them when it rains.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 03:29:08 PM by Curador »

Offline uncletedly

  • Tadpole
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 04:57:43 PM »
I appreciate your comments. I feel entheogens can be a tool used by practitioners on the path to unfolding. While one may have the experience of unity awareness on 5, this does not equate to enlightenment and the experience may become only a memory in short order. With someone who is on some path of awakening the experience can confirm that the absolute is real and accessible. Without a context the experience, though profound, may just be another groovy trip.

Offline Rising Spirit

  • Toad
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • 'Tis a looooooong wind blowing cosmic dust.
    • View Profile
Re: The Drop That Became The Sea
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 10:49:52 PM »
My feeling about this issue is that it is naive to believe that imbibing of any substance, even the mighty 5-MeO, equates to lasting enlightenment.  At least, with any permanent effect.  Still, by surrendering and dying...  we are then reborn anew, as using the sacrement briefly removes everything which clouds the spirit light from our enraptured vision.  This is ecstatic but we return to our own little bubbles of self, dreaming of this or that. 

But during the peak moments...  it has been the absolute pinnacle of my entire life.  But I must say that I have had numerous nondual experiences, some with other entheogens and some from states of deep meditation, culminated after decades of spiritual practice.  I am certain that even if I sat in the lotus posture, three or four hours a day, for over 100 years...  it could hardly compare to the power and immense shift in attention, which 5-MeO-DMT so dramatically bestows upon those who journey with it.  I am now certain what death will be like.  A return to the Source. 

This miraculous molecule triggers the full bloom of the Sahasrara or 7th chakra center in mere minutes.  Opening one up to the blinding white light of God, bestowing temporary ego annihilation and devouring the lines of distinction and quantification.  Erasing the illusion of self and other, dissolution within the undifferentiated sea of being, the sacrement exponentially expands the consciousness of the voyager to the zero point field of seamless union with the Absolute, which eventually settles within the mind's heart.   <3 <3

I have come to believe that daily training in meditation, with or without exercising pranayama, is an incremental continuum of sorts.  It is, simply put, a way of life.  Anointment from 5 is a preview of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, regardless of one's attainment or one's degree of conscious-awareness while completely sober during day to day living.  Even a casual glance at the Rig Vedas, extolling the virtues of Soma, makes you aware that entheogenic alchemy is an ancient companion with many spiritual or religious rituals.  If one digs deeply enough into the Nath tradition, it is clear that as alchemists, they actually did use entheogens to heighten and expand their consciousness. 

The Kriya Yoga taught today has undeniably sprouted from this time honored ancestry.  Kundalini Kriya Yoga has it's roots deeply entwined with the Nath lineage.  While many of the details are shrouded in secrecy, this dose not negate the truth that entheogens have been used for millennia, as a means to introduce the adept to cosmic consciousness.  It's not just the Yogis, it is also prevalent some Buddhist sects, Taoist alchemists, Christian and Sufi schools of mysticism.  Not to mention the widespread usage amongst the Northern, Central and South American native shamanic cultures.   

The great Sri Babaji Maharaj reminded his student Lahiri Mahasaya that in his previous human incarnation, Babaji himself had prepared him, "herbal drinks".  Herbal drinks?  Soma?  Something akin to Ayahuasca?  He then, gives Lahiri a large bowl of oil to drink.  Perhaps hash oil?  Whatever it was, the youthful Lahiri was so blown away that he was floored for hours on end.  The account is in the original version of Autobiography of A Yogi, by Swami Paramahamsa Yogananda.  Now, this may only have been in the earliest stages of his initiation into the Kriya Kundalini teachings and methodologies.  I've never heard of Lahiri Mahasaya recommending entheogens to his students but who can say with any degree of certainty?

What is of paramount importance that just the usage of the sacrement alone, cannot lead to one's ultimate freedom.  It does, however, gift the miraculous experience of entering into communion with the Godhead (actually one's own head) and tasting the immortality of the mystical, nondual unification.  For myself, it's not one path or the other path...  they are one and the same pathway. 

That being said, less is more and without integration and the gradual purification of one's intent, even the sacrement becomes a trap.  Going to the well too often is most unwise, yet, I suspect that it's also a very, very personal thing and some folks want to go further, further and further down the proverbial rabbit hole...  by frequently but sincerely working with the medicine.  I do honestly feel that without some restraint, at least for myself and my need for balance and grounding the epiphanies realized, there is a danger of over-taxing the subtle neurology within the brain and may strain the auric body, which is unhealthy and counterproductive.   _/|\_ _/|\_
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 08:46:46 AM by Rising Spirit »
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.